Keeping the Names Straight (as straight as names can go that is).

[Guest]

In reading some of the cases in Dogen's Shobogenzo, it is a challenge to keep these names straight. For example in case 48 (In Nishijima's Shinji Shobogenzo) (case 247 in Kaz Tanahashi and Lori's translation) ,the Zen Master is called Zuigan (Shigen) in Nishijima and called Ruyian (Shiyan) in Tanahashi/Loori and in my Korean lineage past, he was called Soeng Am. We also needed to know the Chinese name also which is Jui-yen Shih-yen.

I believe that Ruyian Shiyan is Pinyin and Jui-yen Shih-yen is Wade Jiles and Zuigan Shigen is the Japanese version.

Is there a place where these are listed to follow these correctly?

And yes, I chose this case on purpose since old master Zuigan called himself master which was the true master which is the only master that really matters in this case, but still the translations of the names keeps my head spinning sometimes.

Gassho,

Daiman
St/Lah

[Kokuu]

Hi Daiman

Yes, it does get confusing. There may be somewhere which has listings of all of the names but the best I have is at the back of Book Two of the Nishijima/Cross Shobogenzo (and maybe also in volumes Three and Four), on pages 291-292, there is a listing of the Chinese masters with both their Japanese and Pinyin names.

Often it can be good to make your own list as I will admit that I still have to look many of them up.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[aprapti]

Is there a place where these are listed to follow these correctly?

many of the names of the old Chinese masters in Pinyin, Wade and Japanese, and a lot about their sayings, can be found in: Andy Ferguson, Zen's Chinese heritage.

[emoji1374] aprapti


sat

[Guest]

Hi Daiman

Yes, it does get confusing. There may be somewhere which has listings of all of the names but the best I have is at the back of Book Two of the Nishijima/Cross Shobogenzo (and maybe also in volumes Three and Four), on pages 291-292, there is a listing of the Chinese masters with both their Japanese and Pinyin names.

Often it can be good to make your own list as I will admit that I still have to look many of them up.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

Hi Kokuu,

Thank you for this. I forgot to look there. I will start seeing if I can use that to help sift through this a bit better.

Gassho,

Daiman
St/lah

[Guest]

many of the names of the old Chinese masters in Pinyin, Wade and Japanese, and a lot about their sayings, can be found in: Andy Ferguson, Zen's Chinese heritage.

[emoji1374] aprapti


sat

Aprapti,

This sounds like a good resource. Thanks.

Gassho,
Daiman
St/Lah

[Jundo]

Is there a place where these are listed to follow these correctly?

Just the internet. If you put a name in Google, usually wiki, terebess or some online academic publication will pull up biographical information that is fairly reliable, and pops right up.

I actually have a brain condition of some kind (truly, medically verified) in which I forget names, even sometimes calling my own daughter by the cat's name (truly). I don't try to keep all these names straight anymore.

Koan: But what is their True Name, and yours??

Gassho, J

stlah

[Guest]

Koan: But what is their True Name, and yours??

Gassho, J

stlah

“Hey Jundo?”
“Yes, Daiman?” “How can I help you?”
“Oh good, the True Name has appeared. Thank you for your teaching.”

Gassho,

Daiman
St/Lah

[Seiko]

I don't try to keep all these names straight anymore.

Koan: But what is their True Name, and yours??

As a child, mum would go through all my sister's names before she reached mine. I never liked that.

Now as an older adult, I find myself calling my eldest granddaughter by my wife's name, then explaining to her that there is a facial resemblance. Her reaction is to laugh uncontrollably because she says "but grannie is white!" The girl is mixed race and very clearly of African heritage.

Then I call one of our cats (who is black and white) by our old cat's name (who was ginger). She doesn't mind so much. So perhaps, as our memories begin to crumble, we should stick to talking to cats?

On the original subject - to people living today - isn't the teaching important, and our names for the teacher less so? In my house Treeleaf, Tsukuba and Jundo are often referred to collectively as "Japanese HQ".

Sorry for talking too much (running long as usual).

Gasshō
Seiko
stlah