Taking the precepts alone?

[Chogetsu]

Hi all, thanks for all the replys on my previous post (Who am I) I understand a lot better now.

My next question is, can someone take the Bodhisattva precepts alone, in front of an image of the Buddha?

I've been following zen for about 5 years, but because of where I live, its difficult to actually attend a Sangha (Other than this 1 :P ). I have wanted to receive the precepts for a long long time, but, like I said, its difficult as theres no sangha's near me.

So, basically, can I take the precepts alone, or is it really required to have a (preceptor ?) give them to me?

Thanks very much.

Steve

Namaste

[Dosho]

Re: Taking the precepts alone?

Hi Steve,

I'm sure Jundo and other folks are much better able to answer your question than I, but I would just say a couple things.

For me, taking the precepts with our sangha was a very powerful experience that I believe strengthened us as a group. Part of the ceremony itself is pledging our devotion to sangha, along with buddha and dhrama, so for me the ceremony itself as well as our preparation was tied very much to others here.

The other thing I would say is that one does not need to take the precepts formally to be a buddhist, which Jundo has stressed many times. Perhaps that would then mean there is nothing wrong with doing a small ceremony yourself, but all I can say is that having taken the precepts I can't imagine having done it without the inspiration, knowledge, and compassion of my fellow Treeleafers.

What do other folks think?

Gassho,
Scott

[Tb]

Re: Taking the precepts alone?

Hi.

Taking the precepts is more than anything a commitment to yourself, so sure.

On the other hand people may argue that it has to do with lineage and such, so then they might disagree...

Mtfbwy
Tb

[Jundo]

Re: Taking the precepts alone?

Hi,

I will just concur in what the others said. Please have a look at this about our recent Jukai at Treeleaf. A lot of opinions by different teachers about what Jukai means ...

viewtopic.php?p=13446#p13446

Here is something I wrote there:

In my view, the Jukai ceremony celebrates and commemorates two facets that must exist quite on their own, apart from the ceremony … the ceremony itself works no magic, and merely marks their necessary arising:

First, there is the vow and aspiration to live in accord with the Precepts. All the Precepts come down to our seeking, as we can, to live in a manner harmless to ourself and to others, and healthful and helpful to ourself and others, knowing that ultimately there is no separation between ourself and others. If we are living already in such manner … seeking as we can do be a good father/mother/son/daughter/friend/human being … then (in my view) we have already “undertaken the Precepts”, and the ceremony merely commemorates that fact. However, the ceremony also signifies our vow to continue to do so in the future.

Second, the Jukai ceremony stands for our commitment to continue Zen Practice, our commitment to the wider Buddhist Sangha (and, on some level, to a specific Sangha such as Treeleaf), and our linking ourself symbolically to all the Buddhas and Ancestors, and all the other many people, who have walked the Way before us in the past. Again, if one already feels this in one’s heart, then the ceremony merely celebrates that fact, I believe.

Thus, the ceremony itself will not “make you into a Buddhist”. If one does not feel that one “is a Buddhist” already, then the ceremony will do nothing but kill some time in your life. On the other hand, if one has developed a feeling within that one has trust in our Way, in the Buddhas and Ancestors and their Teachings, and will continue to seek to make those the foundation of one’s own life … then one is already a “Buddhist” whether one has the ceremony and receives a robe, fancy name or not.

So, if that is the case, why bother with the ceremony at all?

Again, this is for each person to determine in their own heart. However, personally, I do feel that it is important at certain times to make a formal and open statement of vow and commitment, both for one’s own sake and for the benefit of others in the Sangha and general society who might be encouraged by watching you do so. It is not quite like saying that one is “getting married” versus “just living together” with Buddhism (for one, there is no alimony involved with Jukai if you change your mind later. :? ) But it does signify that one is making a public affirmation of one’s commitment.

After you read the above long post, we can discuss this more. If you want, and your heart tells you that the time and place are right, we will start studying again for our next Jukai in a few months.

Gassho, Jundo

[Jinho]

Re: Taking the precepts alone?

Hi Jundo,

Maybe you could post the link to the video of our Jukai ceremony so Chogestu could see it?

gassho,
rowan

[Jundo]

Re: Taking the precepts alone?

Well ...

It seemingly was the "First All Online Jukai in 2500 Years of Buddhist History" (or, at least, we have received no information to the contrary!) Please view the celebrations here ... (to get a real taste, look from about the 34:00 minute mark)

http://blog..beliefnet.com/treeleafzen/ ... jukai.html

In a ceremony in which all Ancestors of Ages Past, and all Buddhas of every Buddha Realm, are called to be present with us for the ceremony ... well, connecting our Sangha across 8 countries on a single planet was a piece of cake!

Gassho, Jundo

[Sparkle]

Re: Taking the precepts alone?

Hi folks,

I can't get the link to work for the ceremony :?

Can anyone help?

Thanks.

Stu.

[Jundo]

Re: Taking the precepts alone?

Try to update flash, and a different browser if that does not work (and if you have one)

http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download ... omoid=BIOW

[Chogetsu]

Re: Taking the precepts alone?

After you read the above long post, we can discuss this more. If you want, and your heart tells you that the time and place are right, we will start studying again for our next Jukai in a few months.

That would be great! Buddhism is where my heart is, i've wanted to take Jukai for a long time but it's difficult because of where I live.
Receiving the precepts from you would be great!

I couldn't get that link to work either :cry:

Namaste

[Jinho]

Re: Taking the precepts alone?

Hi,

try this link

http://blog.beliefnet.com/treeleafzen/2 ... .html#more

gassho,
rowan

[Martin]

Re: Taking the precepts alone?

Well, I actually went through our Jukai ceremony, if not alone, at least partly "out of synch" with everyone else because, although I was in front of a computer screen during the ceremony itself, the internet connection played up and I couldn't get any sound, so all I could do was watch what was going on and guess where we were - I then went through it again, from the recorded version, this time with sound and taking part, about an hour later at a different location where the internet connection was better. The fact that I did it at a different time from everyone else didn't make it feel any less "real", and indeed I found it an extraordinarily moving experience (quite unexpectedly so). Time and place are not necessarily the barriers we think they are, and I felt all the Ancestors of Ages Past, and all Buddhas of every Buddha Realm were with me an hour later too.

But, I am also sure that what made it so moving was not simply the ceremony, though it was beautiful, but the months of study, sewing the rakusu, and sharing thoughts, experiences and (in the case of sewing the rakusu) occasional difficulties with other sangha members. These were for me an integral part of taking the precepts. I couldn't have done that alone.

Gassho

Martin

[Jundo]

Re: Taking the precepts alone?

But, I am also sure that what made it so moving was not simply the ceremony, though it was beautiful, but the months of study, sewing the rakusu, and sharing thoughts, experiences and (in the case of sewing the rakusu) occasional difficulties with other sangha members. These were for me an integral part of taking the precepts. I couldn't have done that alone.

Yes, that is the part that cannot come so easily from "doing it alone". We will start all that sewing and Precepts reflection again later this year.