Zazen for the benefit of others

[Guest]

The past couple of times I have done zazen, I have felt as if I was sitting with others, even though I was alone. I felt I was sitting with all who suffer, and somehow, that may make a difference in the world. Am I just being overly sentimental regarding the role of zazen, and its part in my wanting to help the world be a better place, or is there really a deeper role of zazen other than just for my own journey?

Gassho

John

SatTodayLAH

[Jippou]

I know when is tarted meditating using the “Centering Prayer” method a decade ago, before I kind of organically made my way over to Zazen, that it opened me up to the suffering of others and the word and compassion for peoples suffering in a way I never imagined. The problem I had and still have with that awakening to suffering is that it made me angry at injustice, all the time, about e everything. I’ve had a really hard time letting that go.
Gassho,
Jason
SAT


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[Seiko]

The past couple of times I have done zazen, I have felt as if I was sitting with others, even though I was alone. I felt I was sitting with all who suffer, and somehow, that may make a difference in the world. Am I just being overly sentimental regarding the role of zazen, and its part in my wanting to help the world be a better place, or is there really a deeper role of zazen other than just for my own journey?

Gassho

John

SatTodayLAH

There is Tonglen too.

Gasshō
Seiko
stlah

[Meian]

The past couple of times I have done zazen, I have felt as if I was sitting with others, even though I was alone. I felt I was sitting with all who suffer, and somehow, that may make a difference in the world. Am I just being overly sentimental regarding the role of zazen, and its part in my wanting to help the world be a better place, or is there really a deeper role of zazen other than just for my own journey?

Gassho

John

SatTodayLAH

As Seiko said, this is true for Tonglen also. And, the following is also a regular part of our ceremonies, and excellent to recite on our own each day, recalling our greater connection with All That Is:

The Four Vows

"To save all sentient beings, though beings numberless

To transform all delusions, though delusions inexhaustible

To perceive reality, though reality is boundless

To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable."

Verse of Atonement

"All harmful acts, words, and thoughts

Ever committed by me since of old

On account of beginningless greed, anger, and ignorance

Born of my body, mouth, and mind

Now I atone for them all."

Yes, John, I would say there is a deeper aspect to Zazen in which we become aware of our connection to and impact on all sentient beings - of which we are as well. [emoji120]

Gassho2 meian stlh

Chop wood, carry water.

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[Nengei]

I believe, that like water wearing at a rock for countless centuries, it is the gentle, subtle pressures from many different sources that guide the unfolding of the universe. I do not believe that there is some magical influence from my sitting zazen or a divine hand guiding anything. But zazen affects how I interact with and respond to everything around me, and I cannot know what the distant effects of that might be. My lifetime of practice may lead one other to inquire, and bring practice into their life, and at a certain critical mass, more and more others will do the same, and some of those come to live by the Precepts. For me, this is the way the world works, and when we override that or push through to get faster results, conflict and trouble arises. In this way, all is one.

Forgive me for my lengthy reply.

Gassho,
Nengei
Sat today. LAH.

[Koushi]

I believe, that like water wearing at a rock for countless centuries, it is the gentle, subtle pressures from many different sources that guide the unfolding of the universe. I do not believe that there is some magical influence from my sitting zazen or a divine hand guiding anything. But zazen affects how I interact with and respond to everything around me, and I cannot know what the distant effects of that might be. My lifetime of practice may lead one other to inquire, and bring practice into their life, and at a certain critical mass, more and more others will do the same, and some of those come to live by the Precepts. For me, this is the way the world works, and when we override that or push through to get faster results, conflict and trouble arises. In this way, all is one.

Forgive me for my lengthy reply.

Gassho,
Nengei
Sat today. LAH.

Gassho,
Koushi
STLaH

[Tokan]

Hey John

My take on this is that zazen helps us to refine our sense of one-ness with all things, and dropping distractions we can appreciate more clearly the world around us. As we practice time after time, this begins to become the 'default mode' if you like, but still we must practice. It is this inner change which helps to benefit all beings by changing you, and therefore changing the universe and all things. I do not believe that chanting verses, praying, or reflecting on the suffering of others in zazen in any way alleviates that suffering, we do not conjure up magic energies that we can 'transfer' to others - we have to get off the zafu and donate to that foodbank if we want to alleviate hunger! Not to diminish this belief if others hold it dearly, I just cannot subscribe to it myself. However, practices such as offering metta, tonglen or contemplating what the people of Turkey or Ukraine are enduring, for me, is about the intent to care and be present to suffering, in all its forms, bearing witness to this thing we call 'life'. One other point I'd like to make is that when we sit zazen, we sit as the Buddha sat, therefore maintaining his example, preserving the tradition, so in that way we sit for others too, that they may one day benefit from our small role in preserving the practice of zazen. As always, just my views....

I think, as a question, it is one we should always seek to ask but not to answer!


Thanks all

Gassho, Tokan

satlah

[Shonin Risa Bear]

When we are practicing, we are presumably keeping the prohibitory precepts, because we aren't, while sitting, prone to lie, steal, abuse, gassip and so on; so that's already less of those things floating around than if we did not practice. Conversely, the positives, i.e. the pure precepts, eightfold path and the paramitas, are helpful in setting conditions for good practice.

One might say that the helping hands of Avalokiteshvara begin with mudra.

gassho
ds sat today and lah.

[Tokan]

When we are practicing, we are presumably keeping the prohibitory precepts, because we aren't, while sitting, prone to lie, steal, abuse, gassip and so on; so that's already less of those things floating around than if we did not practice. Conversely, the positives, i.e. the pure precepts, eightfold path and the paramitas, are helpful in setting conditions for good practice.

One might say that the helping hands of Avalokiteshvara begin with mudra.

gassho
ds sat today and lah.

Gassho, Tokan

satlah

[Tai Shi]

I believe in Zen to help others, this is Zazn to and in the grateful part we give back for the Zendo life that I will been granted in the years of as I am I feel good to myself because of Zen and all the ways I have help other and this is a good time anymore important to my heart and my practice

Gassho and
sat/ lah
Tai Shi

[Tai Shi]

I think what I wanted to say is helping others feels good and this is good for you and your Zendo because it feels good and you help others to feel better about themselves and life. That is called Dana or someone please correct 👍 me!
Gassho
Sat/ lah

[Jundo]

Zazen, and all our practice, should always be primarily about benefitting other, dedicating our efforts to their well-being. This is the Bodhisattva way.

It might actually be just a symbolic dedication, but I believe that doing so actually has real effects to benefit others: When we bring even a drop more peace and wisdom into the world, it spreads like ripples through the world (just as acting with even a little anger and violence also spreads, and has effects near and far.)

Does the above mean that we too cannot benefit from sitting Zazen and other practice? No, not at all. In fact, the real benefit to ourselves comes when we give up selfishly seeking our own pay-off from practice, and give away ... thus to receive.

Gassho, J

stlah

[Risho]

What Jundo Roshi said directly above is fantastic. Especially now where it seems things are like a powderkeg. Having the ability to not react despite the flash of anger that arises, to really see that your “enemy” is also quite literally a buddha as well has positive impact on so many levels.

This idea of doing something to benefit others must be some law in the universe: not only is it central to our practice, but I find this is most effective in really almost any situation- even and especially in the corporate world.

Sorry for going long, but that deeply resonated. I feel strongly that no matter how difficult it is sometimes we have to get past our personal preferences and opinions and see the humanity and buddha nature in us all. I feel that has an immeasurable healing quality that we are all in desperate need of.

And if we as zen practitioners who have taken jukai and adhere to the bodhisattva vows can’t do this, who can?

“If not now, when. If not you, who?” - I think Dogen

gassho

risho
-stlah

[Tokan]

Hi all

I'm just re-reading Living By Vow, it has some excellent points to make about precisely this topic, therefore (if you haven't read it yet) I'd highly recommend it.

Gassho, Tokan

satlah