Not a great sit.

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  • Ankai
    Novice Priest-in-Training
    • Nov 2007
    • 1043

    Not a great sit.

    Sat this morning, and it wasn't a particularly great sit. I found that my mind was all over the place, I had extreme difficulties focusing, I was thinking about the time entirely too much, and by the time it was over, I was thinking, "when is the damn bell going to ring?"
    And yet, I still sat, and it was still Zazen.
    I think sometimes we spend so much time focusing on the time we were on the cushion and everything just flies by or the time we sat and had some wonderful moment of illumination that we forget that a lot of the time we spend on the cushion is really just time we spend on the cushion.
    And that's okay.
    There's no doubt in my mind that even Buddha himself had moments as he sat in which his obnoxious cousin or his hunger or any number of other things didn't intrude.
    I actually think it's pretty healthy to talk about this stuff so I would love to hear other people's recollections of the times when sitting isn't just fabulous.
    We've all been there.

    SatToday
    Last edited by Ankai; 03-02-2023, 07:04 PM.
    Gassho!
    護道 安海


    -Godo Ankai

    I'm still just starting to learn. I'm not a teacher. Please don't take anything I say too seriously. I already take myself too seriously!
  • Shinshi
    Senior Priest-in-Training
    • Jul 2010
    • 3777

    #2
    Originally posted by KvonNJ
    Sat this morning, and it wasn't a particularly great scent. I found that my mind was all over the place, I had extreme difficulties focusing, I was thinking about the time entirely too much, and by the time it was over, I was thinking, "when is the damn bill going to ring?"
    And yet, I still sat, and it was still Zazen.
    I think sometimes we spend so much time focusing on the time we were on the cushion and everything just flies by or the time we sat and had some wonderful moment of illumination that we forget that a lot of the time we spend on the cushion is really just time we spend on the cushion.
    And that's okay.
    There's no doubt in my mind that even Buddha himself had moments as he sat in which his obnoxious cousin or his hunger or any number of other things didn't intrude.
    I actually think it's pretty healthy to talk about this stuff so I would love to hear other people's recollections of the times when sitting isn't just fabulous.
    We've all been there.
    All sittings are just perfect as they are, we just like some more than others. I have had plenty of sits that I have evaluated as hard or unpleasant, or even "wrong". I am struggling with back issues and it means that often I can't sit the full time period I set for myself. I have to get up and move around a bit and then return to the cushion. It is really easy to get caught up in evaluating that as "bad", not doing it "right", not living up the the correct "standard". I try to be gentle with myself. And step back from my attachment to doing things the right way. In fact, working with those emotions and thoughts can often be very insightful.

    Sometimes it is just about keeping on even though things are hard. Congrats on your not great sit!!!

    Gassho, Shinshi

    SaT-LaH
    空道 心志 Kudo Shinshi

    For Zen students a weed is a treasure. With this attitude, whatever you do, life becomes an art.
    ​— Shunryu Suzuki

    E84I - JAJ

    Comment

    • MattN
      Member
      • May 2022
      • 11

      #3
      I really appreciated this perspective and needed it today! I've had a change in daily routine which means I'm getting up to sit much earlier in the morning now and it feels much harder. This is a great reminder to keep on going.

      Matt
      Sat Today

      Comment

      • Tom M
        Member
        • Oct 2022
        • 22

        #4
        Often if my mind becomes clear and bright during a sit, I will think "yes! now!", but after a while I fade back into dullness and distraction without noticing it happen.

        I try to sit every day, even if a sit is interrupted after a few minutes by family life, or I'm really sleepy and just struggling to keep my eyes open.

        It seems all the stories of monks are full of them being struck with sticks because of sleeping during zazen, so if pro-zazen can be sleepy zazen, who am I to demand different

        Tom
        Sat today

        Comment

        • Shokai
          Dharma Transmitted Priest
          • Mar 2009
          • 6471

          #5
          There's no good Zazen and there's no bad Zazen; there's just YOUR Zazen!!

          gassho, Shokai
          stlah
          合掌,生開
          gassho, Shokai

          仁道 生開 / Jindo Shokai

          "Open to life in a benevolent way"

          https://sarushinzendo.wordpress.com/

          Comment

          • Shonin Risa Bear
            Member
            • Apr 2019
            • 923

            #6
            In a "bad" sit, not a moment goes by that is not the whole amazing universe as it is, exactly the same as in a "good" sit.
            The Hsin Hsin Ming applies here (as everywhere).

            Good sit! Thank you.

            gassho
            ds sat today
            Last edited by Shonin Risa Bear; 03-01-2023, 06:13 AM.
            Visiting priest: use salt

            Comment

            • Seiko
              Novice Priest-in-Training
              • Jul 2020
              • 1129

              #7
              I've had times when there are too many interruptions, then I gave up and returned to sit later.

              I had a time in sesshin when I blacked out during zazen. I regained consciousness after being moved to another room.

              Sitting seems to amplify any little problems or issues that I have. That's always the case for me, if I try to ignore something, it will rise up during sitting, to remind me it's still unsolved. Then peace comes when I stop trying so hard.

              Gasshō
              seiko
              stlah
              Last edited by Seiko; 02-28-2023, 09:56 PM.
              Gandō Seiko
              頑道清光
              (Stubborn Way of Pure Light)

              My street name is 'Al'.

              Any words I write here are merely the thoughts of an apprentice priest, just my opinions, that's all.

              Comment

              • Kaisho
                Member
                • Nov 2016
                • 190

                #8
                Yeah this practice is whole and complete despite our aches and pains and our monkey minds latching on to various things. Conversely it is still (just as) complete when we judge sitting to be good.

                Thank you for the reminder

                Gassho, Kaisho
                Stlah

                Sent from my moto g stylus 5G using Tapatalk

                Comment

                • Jundo
                  Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 40987

                  #9
                  I think that this good Soto Zen priest says it all ...

                  ... from the 4:30 mark to 8:00 mark. Please watch that portion triple 3x thrice.


                  ** (By the way, I am going to reach out to, see if we can get the priest, Rev. Uno, here as a guest speaker or the like if his English is up for it and he is willing ... or maybe I will hop on a train up there ...)

                  Gassho, J

                  stlah
                  ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                  Comment

                  • Jundo
                    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                    • Apr 2006
                    • 40987

                    #10
                    There are no obstructions or interruptions to Zazen, no thoughts that disturb ... unless your own mind clings to such happenings, and judges, defines and feels "this is obstruction" "this is interruption" "this is disturbance" between your own ears.

                    If one drops away all ratings and judgements between the ears of "this is an obstruction ... interruption ... disturbance" ... then all is just circumstances, things as they are, shining in equanimity.

                    Then ... thoughts or no thoughts, focusing or not focusing, illumination or no illumination, doorbells ringing, baby crying (including getting up to tend to the baby if needed), noise or silence, beautiful garden or ugly wall, hunger and obnoxious cousins, sleepy or not sleepy, fainting or not fainting during Zazen (including immediately getting that checked at the doctor!), aches and pains and monkey mind ... are all just circumstances, things precious "just as they are," shining sacred and unique in equanimity ... when one drops judgements of "this is obstruction, interruption, disturbance" from mind. Then, baby crying is a Buddha crying, doorbells are temple bells, obnoxious relatives are the passing breeze, and even aches and pains and monkeys are the whole universe aching and paining and monkeying around.

                    Yes, we do as we can to let go of thoughts, to not grab on to long trains of thought and let them pass ... Yes, we "sit" in some balanced way, as the body allows ... but Zazen is Good, thoughts or no thoughts or whatever the posture.

                    Furthermore, attain the most perfect bliss, the deepest concentration of mind, the most wondrous insight and it is also Good Zazen if one does not cling to the bliss, the concentration, the insight. Some times there may be bliss, concentration and insight ... and sometimes not ... and it is still all Perfect, Good Zazen! When bliss or no bliss happens it is also, equally, circumstances, sacred, just things precious as they are, no different from crying babies and mind monkeying. Bliss or no bliss, all sacred, unique, precious in the moment.

                    On the other hand, attain the most perfect bliss, the deepest concentration of mind and insight day after day ... and it is Bad Zazen if one clings to such or feels that "Good Zazen" is found only in such states of bliss, concentration and insight. In fact, all one has attained is a limited insight.

                    Shikantaza Zazen is counter-intuitive in this way.

                    Gassho, J

                    stlah
                    Last edited by Jundo; 03-01-2023, 12:26 AM.
                    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                    Comment

                    • Bion
                      Senior Priest-in-Training
                      • Aug 2020
                      • 4977

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Jundo
                      I think that this good Soto Zen priest says it all ...

                      ... from the 4:30 mark to 8:00 mark. Please watch that portion triple 3x thrice.


                      ** (By the way, I am going to reach out to, see if we can get the priest, Rev. Uno, here as a guest speaker or the like if his English is up for it and he is willing ... or maybe I will hop on a train up there ...)

                      Gassho, J

                      stlah
                      He is wonderful, isn’t he? You can feel the warmth with which he explains everything and you sense the smile behind the mask!

                      [emoji1374] Sat Today
                      "Stepping back with open hands, is thoroughly comprehending life and death. Immediately you can sparkle and respond to the world." - Hongzhi

                      Comment

                      • Kaisho
                        Member
                        • Nov 2016
                        • 190

                        #12
                        Thanks Jundo.

                        Gassho
                        Kaisho
                        Stlah

                        Sent from my moto g stylus 5G using Tapatalk
                        Last edited by Kaisho; 03-01-2023, 03:12 AM. Reason: Trying to be clear why I posted again.

                        Comment

                        • michaelw
                          Member
                          • Feb 2022
                          • 268

                          #13
                          Things that happen while just sitting:

                          cough
                          sneeze
                          eczema itch
                          repeated phone calls
                          cat trapped in same room
                          incense set off the smoke detector
                          cushion on my seiza bench slipping
                          door bell because I locked Mrs W out

                          Gassho
                          MichaelW

                          sat

                          Comment

                          • Jundo
                            Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                            • Apr 2006
                            • 40987

                            #14
                            Things that happen while just sitting:

                            cough, breeze blows
                            sneeze, volcano erupts
                            eczema itch, sun shines
                            repeated phone calls, silence
                            cat trapped in same room, no cat no room
                            incense set off the smoke detector, super-nova explodes a billion light years away
                            cushion on my seiza bench slipping, no place to fall
                            door bell because I locked Mrs W out, no place to enter the gateless gate ...


                            Each and all is just circumstances, things as they are, shining, one and all unique, a jewel in Indra's Net.

                            Gassho, J

                            stlah
                            ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                            Comment

                            • Jippou
                              Member
                              • Dec 2017
                              • 111

                              #15
                              One of the things I really appreciate about shikintaza is this emphasis of all zazen being good zazen and everything being complete and perfect just as it is. It is encouraging to me, because frankly, my mind is a racing mess most of the time, flitting from thought to though at breakneck speed. Under any other circumstances I’d feel like a complete failure, but here I can feel like it just is what it is and that’s ok. It keeps me coming back to sitting over and over again.

                              Gassho,
                              Jason
                              SAT


                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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