Should Zen practitioners be politically active?

**Jishin** · 02-09-2023, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by JohnS

Except the vax has been shown not to prevent anything in terms of spread, one of the many fallacies of misinformation about the vaccine. I am secure in my perception of myself not violating any precepts by not being vaxxed. In my case, the vax was contra-indicated for me, due to medical reasons. I am supposedly in a high risk group, had COVID 2x, never had a fever or cough either time. Was fine in a few days. My natural immunity now is better than a vax, this has been shown in many studies that seem to always get ignored by the media. I would think it would be more in alignment with the precepts for the medical community to tell people how to get and stay healthy than pushing meds on them, as the industry does.

Gassho,

John
stlah

From a Buddhist perspective, getting vaccinated against COVID-19 is a responsible and ethical choice as it aligns with several key principles such as compassion, altruism, and respect for life. Buddhism encourages individuals to act with compassion and prioritize the well-being of others over their own self-interest. By getting vaccinated, individuals demonstrate compassion for the health and well-being of others and help to slow the spread of the virus. Buddhism also recognizes the value of life and encourages individuals to respect and protect it. By getting vaccinated, individuals are taking a proactive step to protect their own life and the lives of others, helping to mitigate the harm caused by the pandemic.

From a scientific perspective, vaccines have been shown to be safe and effective in preventing illness and reducing the spread of COVID-19. Vaccines go through rigorous testing and are continuously monitored for safety. Decades of research have shown that vaccines have been instrumental in controlling and eliminating many deadly diseases, such as smallpox, polio, and measles. The overwhelming scientific consensus is that there is no link between vaccines and autism.

On the other hand, antivax thinking is based on misinformation, conspiracy theories, and a lack of understanding of the science behind vaccines. Refusing vaccines puts not only the individual but also the community at risk, as it contributes to the spread of disease and puts vulnerable populations at risk.

Getting vaccinated against COVID-19 aligns with Buddhist principles and is supported by credible scientific evidence. It is important to rely on scientific evidence and trust in the safety and efficacy of vaccines in order to protect not only oneself but also the community.

My 2 cents.

Gassho, Jishin, ST, LAH

**Jundo** · 02-09-2023, 11:45 AM

Kokuu actually has a Ph.D. in biology, although he does not usually brag about it!

He is a man of many talents.

And Jishin is a medical doctor!

He is useful for something too, besides starting contentious threads.

Gassho, J

stlah

**JohnS** · 02-09-2023, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by Jishin

From a Buddhist perspective, getting vaccinated against COVID-19 is a responsible and ethical choice as it aligns with several key principles such as compassion, altruism, and respect for life. Buddhism encourages individuals to act with compassion and prioritize the well-being of others over their own self-interest. By getting vaccinated, individuals demonstrate compassion for the health and well-being of others and help to slow the spread of the virus. Buddhism also recognizes the value of life and encourages individuals to respect and protect it. By getting vaccinated, individuals are taking a proactive step to protect their own life and the lives of others, helping to mitigate the harm caused by the pandemic.

From a scientific perspective, vaccines have been shown to be safe and effective in preventing illness and reducing the spread of COVID-19. Vaccines go through rigorous testing and are continuously monitored for safety. Decades of research have shown that vaccines have been instrumental in controlling and eliminating many deadly diseases, such as smallpox, polio, and measles. The overwhelming scientific consensus is that there is no link between vaccines and autism.

On the other hand, antivax thinking is based on misinformation, conspiracy theories, and a lack of understanding of the science behind vaccines. Refusing vaccines puts not only the individual but also the community at risk, as it contributes to the spread of disease and puts vulnerable populations at risk.

Getting vaccinated against COVID-19 aligns with Buddhist principles and is supported by credible scientific evidence. It is important to rely on scientific evidence and trust in the safety and efficacy of vaccines in order to protect not only oneself but also the community.

My 2 cents.

Gassho, Jishin, ST, LAH

Your presuppositions are flawed I'm sorry to say. We are not, first of all, discussing all vaccines, but rather, this vaccine. There were no real trials, not the 3 to 5 years worth that is standard for the industry. According to much data, the vaccines did little to impact spread. Why was natural immunity ignores so long until studies forced the admittance of its role? You also, like many who hold your view, use the term anti Vax in a derogatory fashion, most unseemly for a Buddhist. You presume I don't believe in vaccines, which is false. As far as this vaccine goes, there is much data to support my position. If you really relied on scientific data, you would acknowledge that.

That all being said, I will not silently be judged or condemned in this liberal make shift tribunal. I am actually extremely disappointed but what has been said here. It seems I will need to rethink my being a part of this sangha, for as usual, those who portray themselves as tolerant are the least so.

John

**Kokuu** · 02-09-2023, 12:05 PM

I am actually extremely disappointed but what has been said here

As far as this vaccine goes, there is much data to support my position. If you really relied on scientific data, you would acknowledge that.

I would be very happy to engage with you if you would like to challenge any of the points I have made. I am not judging or condemning you, but presenting the scientific facts from what I know. However, immunology and epidemiology are not my fields so I may have erred.

Gassho
Kokuu

**Jishin** · 02-09-2023, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by JohnS

Your presuppositions are flawed I'm sorry to say. We are not, first of all, discussing all vaccines, but rather, this vaccine. There were no real trials, not the 3 to 5 years worth that is standard for the industry. According to much data, the vaccines did little to impact spread. Why was natural immunity ignores so long until studies forced the admittance of its role? You also, like many who hold your view, use the term anti Vax in a derogatory fashion, most unseemly for a Buddhist. You presume I don't believe in vaccines, which is false. As far as this vaccine goes, there is much data to support my position. If you really relied on scientific data, you would acknowledge that.

That all being said, I will not silently be judged or condemned in this liberal make shift tribunal. I am actually extremely disappointed but what has been said here. It seems I will need to rethink my being a part of this sangha, for as usual, those who portray themselves as tolerant are the least so.

John

John, it is important to approach this matter with an open mind and respect for different perspectives. While I understand your concerns regarding this specific vaccine, it is also important to acknowledge the overwhelming scientific evidence supporting the safety and efficacy of vaccines in general. As Buddhists, it is our responsibility to act with compassion and prioritize the well-being of others, and getting vaccinated is one way we can do so. I encourage you to consider the evidence and the potential impact of refusing a vaccine on both yourself and others. Let us approach this subject with understanding and kindness, and strive to find common ground.

Gassho, Jishin, ST, LAH

**JohnS** · 02-09-2023, 12:16 PM

With respect, I have read much of the data, as has MY doctor, who told me he was dead set against giving the vaccine to anyone. There are many doctors who strongly disagree with your position, and you know it. This has been driven by many factors which many dont care to see or acknowledge. As a Buddhist, it my responsibility to adhere to truth. Also, it would do well for you to practice non-judgement, as you assume much. My potential impact has been strengthening my immune system, therefore slowing spread. Surely you acknowledge this can be so, as there is much data from studies to support it. You say we should approach the subject with kindness and common ground, and with respect, yet condemn me and judge me and presume things in almost every other sentence you write.

I am done with this conversation. As I said, I have some thinking to do in regards to the sangha.

John

**Bion** · 02-09-2023, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by JohnS

With respect, I have read much of the data, as has MY doctor, who told me he was dead set against giving the vaccine to anyone. There are many doctors who strongly disagree with your position, and you know it. This has been driven by many factors which many dont care to see or acknowledge. As a Buddhist, it my responsibility to adhere to truth. Also, it would do well for you to practice non-judgement, as you assume much. My potential impact has been strengthening my immune system, therefore slowing spread. Surely you acknowledge this can be so, as there is much data from studies to support it. You say we should approach the subject with kindness and common ground, and with respect, yet condemn me and judge me and presume things in almost every other sentence you write.

I am done with this conversation. As I said, I have some thinking to do in regards to the sangha.

John

I am sure it is not the first time you find yourself in this argument. I guess, anywhere in life, this sangha or others, we’re dealing with different people and beliefs, different personalities and approaches. Not sure you’d be able to ever find a place where everyone thinks exactly the same. Ultimately, we try to find a way to listen to each other and to respect each other, cause that is also our practice, so I hope you don’t get too upset with the sangha itself. [emoji3526]

[emoji1374] Sat

**Ryumon** · 02-09-2023, 12:25 PM

This is off topic. Please argue about it somewhere else.

Gassho,
Ryūmon (Kirk)
Sat

**JohnS** · 02-09-2023, 12:28 PM

Why do you assume I want people to think exactly as I do? Have not those who have been judging and making assumptions been guilty of that? Thank you for your words, however.

**Huichan** · 02-09-2023, 12:40 PM

Don't think the sangha is really the correct forum to debate such a matter due to the various scientific, political, economic, social etc aspects of COVID vaccinations. I don't think it's helpful saying either stance is or isn't 'Buddhist' either. I sort of think the debate kind of points out some of the reasons why it is difficult to be politically active as a zen practitioner (in the widest sense of the term), due to the varying ways that someone can intend to apply their Buddhist principles into any sort of political or social topic (I don't intend to say that we shouldn't be politically active as zen practioners either).