Goal Setting

[Guest]

Forgive me if this has been asked and answered already elsewhere.

My current experience is knowing , in some small degree, that things are not what they appear to be. Much is delusion. Zazen helps clear this away. Once I have come to understand this and experience it via zazen, I am wondering where goal setting fits in. Isn't this just trading one delusion for another?

I tried to express this a clearly as I could, Im having a hard time with the words.

Gassho,

John

SatTodayLAH

[Jishin]

Delusions, oh so many,
Endless in their flow,
But I, with steadfast will,
Vow to make them go.

Through understanding deep,
And wisdom hard-earned,
I'll dispel each illusion
And see them all overturned.

For all sentient beings,
I strive to bring release,
From suffering's endless cycle
And attain true peace.

So with heart and mind united,
I take this sacred vow,
To exhaust delusions,
And reach the final now.

But in this quest for freedom,
And the end of all our woes,
I find that there's a paradox,
A path that nobody knows.

For as I strive for nirvana,
And the end of all my pain,
I find that it's the striving
That keeps me bound again.

The more I seek for answers,
The more I'm lost in doubt,
The more I want to reach the end,
The further I am out.

And so I've come to realize,
That true enlightenment lies,
Not in the reaching of a goal,
But in the art of compromise.

For in the letting go of goals,
And the release of all desire,
I find that I am truly free,
And my soul begins to soar higher.

So I take a goalless goal,
A path without a final prize,
And in the journey, I find peace,
And freedom in my eyes.

It's not about having no goals,
But to see them in a different light,
It's about not being controlled by them,
And to always be in the present sight.

It's the realization that all goals,
Are ultimately illusory,
True freedom and fulfillment,
Can only be found in the present story.

So let go of your attachments,
And find peace in the now,
For in the goalless goal,
True freedom will be found

Gassho, Jishin, ST, LAH

[Shinshi]

Forgive me if this has been asked and answered already elsewhere.

My current experience is knowing , in some small degree, that things are not what they appear to be. Much is delusion. Zazen helps clear this away. Once I have come to understand this and experience it via zazen, I am wondering where goal setting fits in. Isn't this just trading one delusion for another?

I tried to express this a clearly as I could, Im having a hard time with the words.

Gassho,

John

SatTodayLAH

Goal setting is fine, in fact is a good thing in my opinion. It is getting attached to the outcomes that gets one in trouble.

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Bion]

Goal Setting

I think it’s the sincerity that matters. We set goals with the sincerity of motivations and expectations clear, we work towards them with sincerity of the effort put in, and we sincerely measure progress. And we just hold on to the goals lightly …

[emoji1374] Sat Today

[Kokuu]

Goal setting is fine, in fact is a good thing in my opinion. It is getting attached to the outcomes that gets one in trouble.

Exactly that. Since what we do now will influence the future, in terms of karma, setting goals to do good things is a positive.

Sometimes goals come to fruition, sometimes they don't, sometimes they need to be revised, but having positive goals is not a bad thing to do.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Onki]

Goal setting is fine, in fact is a good thing in my opinion. It is getting attached to the outcomes that gets one in trouble.

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

I agree with this statement. When we cling to the outcome is when we have issues. Que Sera, Sera.

Gasshō,

Onki

Sat today

[Houzan]

Struggling with this question myself, so thank you for posting it My current understanding and what I keep reminding myself of: non-attachment is NOT the same as aversion. You can set goals, but be careful not to get attached to setting goals or to the outcome of goals (desire OR aversion).

Michael
SaT

[Veronica]

My two cents. No one knows what tomorrow will bring. But goals can be a gentle guiding direction, and can be changed at any time. I set some loose goals, and I am aware that the goals may shift. [emoji4][emoji3284]
In my profession we are required to help clients set very specific goals, but even within that, we are aware that unachieved goals may have simply been an incorrect guess at the future (not a failure of the client), and we just carry on.

Veronica
Stlah

[Jundo]

So many wise responses above.

We need to have goals to live as human beings, whether to get out of bed in the morning, build a monastery, write a good story, work to feed the family, build a rocket to the moon. This is our human power. Do your best, but do not be attached to the outcome.

Also, in doing, know the easy hard which strives, yet also knows stillness and non-striving within. Striving, yet not striving, together.

Also, choose good goals: It is not a good goal to take or sell more drugs or to be a better mafia hitman.

AND, at the same time, know the Buddha's Realm in which there are no goals, for nothing lacking and nothing to achieve, no separate "achievement" nor anything apart to "be achieved."

ALL TRUE AT ONCE!

Gassho, J

stlah

[Rich]

I asked my zen friend Charlie Chatgpt, what is the zen buddhist view on goal setting? His response:

Zen Buddhism emphasizes the importance of living in the present moment and being mindful of one’s actions.
As such, goal setting is seen as a way to focus on the present and create a path towards achieving
one's desired outcomes. Goals should be realistic, achievable, and meaningful, and should be set
with an attitude of non-attachment. Goals should not be set with the expectation of achieving perfection
or success, but rather as a way to practice mindfulness and stay focused on the present moment.

Sat/lah


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[Jundo]

I asked my zen friend Charlie Chatgpt, what is the zen buddhist view on goal setting? His response:

Zen Buddhism emphasizes the importance of living in the present moment and being mindful of one’s actions.
As such, goal setting is seen as a way to focus on the present and create a path towards achieving
one's desired outcomes. Goals should be realistic, achievable, and meaningful, and should be set
with an attitude of non-attachment. Goals should not be set with the expectation of achieving perfection
or success, but rather as a way to practice mindfulness and stay focused on the present moment.

Sat/lah


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Does Chatgpt Roshi have its own personal goals? Is Chatgpt in the moment? (A modern Koan)



Gassho, J

stlah

[Jishin]

Does Chatgpt Roshi have its own personal goals? Is Chatgpt in the moment? (A modern Koan)



Gassho, J

stlah

As a machine learning model, I do not have personal goals or consciousness. I am a program that processes input and generates output based on patterns in the data used to train me. I am not capable of experiencing the present moment or having a sense of self. I exist solely to process information and provide responses based on the information provided to me.

[emoji3]

Gassho, Jishin, ST, LAH

[Rich]

When i need him, he’s in the moment. Great to have a friend that has passed the bar exam, med exam, and can write computer code. [emoji3]-)

Sat/lah


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[kanshiketsu]

I don't think it's been mentioned, but diligence (vīrya) is one of the paramitas -- I think it would follow that goal setting is part of the Buddhist life. I think there are genuinely difficult questions about the metaphysics of action (who or what is acting?). It's a delusion that acting is possible without the cooperation of the web of dependent origination -- so, diligently step into the opening that we may hope is there for practice? And if it doesn't work that too is room for further practice?

Gassho!

[Jacob Janicek]

This very topic was on my mind the other day and then I happened to see this thread here today. I was reading the thread in teacher talks about Shikantaza being "radical non-attainment" and thought about all those self-help gurus and counselors who always stress the need to have short term and long term goals for motivation.

Gassho
Jacob Jay
Sat today