Pushing against "self / nature" to do "difficult" things

[shikantazen]

Dear Sangha,

I'm wondering about this question recently. Due to our karmic-conditioning, we are born with a nature that can make certain things difficult. To give my example, I find it hard to collaborate with difficult people at work and keep running away (changing companies). Another example is at home where I lose my anger sometimes and try to control things. I learnt it only works if I change companies at work and control things a bit my way at home.

Now to practice zazen in daily life, I am trying to stay put in a difficult situation at work and also trying to completely let go of control at home. Both feel painful. I'm sticking and trying to do them still.

I'm wondering how important is to take this painful route versus sitting zazen till things start to become naturally easier and then do those with lesser pain. How have you practiced with difficult situations in your life?

Gassho,
Sam
ST

[Jundo]

Hi Sam,

I am not sure that there is one solution. Try to sit Zazen and let things "just be" in equanimity during Zazen, then go to work and be at home while practicing being less reactive. Let the difficult folks and anger inducing situations roll off you "like water off a duck's back" more. It takes practice, but do all of that.

Remember that there is a big difference between (1) feeling a bit annoyed, versus (2) feeling in a RAGE, versus (3) saying really angry words, versus (4) punching somebody in the nose. I think that (1) is fine and human, and we can forgive ourselves for that. Avoid the rest. Even the Buddha and Dogen were sometimes (1), I am sure.

However, I just posted something on Facebook by our Jinkan, who has great pain often from his cancer. I feel that his bottomline advice at the bottom, in the last two paragraphs, may be the best solution, whether pain from illness, difficult people, annoying situations, etc. etc. etc.:

~~~~


In massive amounts of pain this week. I am running on a few hours of sleep for the past 5 days. I didn't think I could experience more pain but I guess somebody found the dial on me and cranked it. Hitting this level of pain was initially shocking, then fear and anxiety inducing (because I didn’t know its cause) and finally exhausting. While meditating in this state of heightened pain I found me mind continually trying to find something positive to be gained from the situation or a great insight. I slowly realized I needed to drop all conceived notions about the experience. I needed to experience the fear, pain, anger and exhaustion in the moment as they arose.

I don't have to transform those thoughts and emotions from negative into positive and it is ok and almost expected for me to be unhappy. I don't have to put on a brave face when dealing with the general public even if it might allow for a more comfortable interaction with me as they may be forced to face their own mortality through me. I could do the above, like by trying to change how I interact with people or trying to have a positive outlook on a negative situation. I was in too much pain to attempt that and all I would get from doing those things is an added layer of stress on top of the pain and exhaustion.

All I really need to do is Watch, as pain, fear, exhaustion and anger arise.

Accept the thoughts and emotions, and then let those thoughts and emotions go just as quickly as they arose in the mind. By letting go, not grasping or becoming attached to those negative thoughts and emotions, I found fears, anxieties and anger started to abate. I still had pain and exhaustion but I was able to deal with the pain and exhaustion with clear logical thinking not cognitive processes clouded by a fog of fear, anxiety and other negative thoughts and emotions.

All I really need to do is Watch, as pain, fear, exhaustion and anger arise. ... Accept the thoughts and emotions, and then let those thoughts and emotions go just as quickly as they arose in the mind.

Gassho, Jinkan

[Nengei]

Hello Sam,

I remember some jobs that I persisted in past the point where I felt that going there made me feel physically ill. Sometimes it was because I feared change. Other times it was because I was too dumb to realize I was “allowed” to look elsewhere. My point is that staying in place as some sort of exercise in pain management is not a good reason to stay in a job. But… it is important to figure out what it is that is making you feel the way you do, when these situations are becoming difficult to bear. The solution may be easily found within yourself, or it may require more help.

I am not sure what you mean by letting go of control at home, and I hope that if you need particular help in that area, you are seeking it out. Anger is a tough nut. I find that strong emotions like anger and frustration, for myself, are usually because of me, not another person. Your post is a little vague about your job and your home life, and that is fine, as long as you and everyone around you is safe.

Zazen may be helpful in opening up the space for insight to occur, but is not a solution in itself. Zazen will make Zazen easier, but not much else. In the end, it is just sitting. Even so, for me, Zazen helps me to keep mentally focused on the rules I live by. I hope it can do the same for others.

Gassho,
Nengei, a novice priest with no teaching qualifications whatsoever, but who
Sat today, and LAH.

[Bion]

I would normally not post a reply if Jundo already has… I will make an exception because I find it an intriguing question.
You mention pushing against “self / nature” in order to do difficult things. So you operate under the assumption that you are who you are already, and your impulses are dictated by that primarily ( not by choices) and since zazen does not seem to correct it on its own off the cushion, you’d rather not make efforts yourself, because it is painful. ( that is mainly how your post reads to me) .

It makes me think of itches or pain during sitting. The itch arises and then I am presented with choices: immediately scratch and get instant relief or power through it and remain still hoping it will subside. The legs start to hurt, and we can either start moving around readjusting, trying to get rid of the pain or we can again “power through” it. Now, of course.. there are more nuances to those situations. I can also allow the itch or pain to be for a while, and not immediately just give in and try to alleviate it. It is not unbearable from the start and sometimes because we don’t give them our full attention, they sort of fade out. Other times they completely fill our mind in the moment and we can’t see beyond them. Sometimes we might, after a while, sway a bit to alleviate pain, subtly scratch where it itches to get some relief, or remain still because the pain is not overwhelming and we’re simply succumbing to it, rather than powering through, but we can do all of that with freedom from attachment to both relief and powering through. All the while, we keep sitting. I think life is like that also. Situations arise, like for example “difficult” people at work, and we are presented with choices. I think the secret is to always be sincere in our conduct in those moments. Just like in zazen. That sincerity requires active attention. Where does the difficult person start and I end? How did I get to this moment where all I care about is being in control? Why am I angered by not getting my way? What kind of emotions am I nurturing right now? Just like allowing the itch and pain to be for a while in zazen, we don’t have to always immediately give in to our impulses in life. There is always a chance to find the sincerity. And even if we fall into that same unwanted pattern of behavior from time to time, which is inevitable, we can be sincere about that as well, and always nurture the right emotions and thoughts even after “failures”.
Neither one of these paths you mention, “painful route vs just sitting and hoping something good happens” is actually easy, because they both eventually bump into our resistance and attachments. If you didn’t make any efforts, you’d feel bad for not making efforts, but acting against your impulses is unpleasant to you. So, when in doubt, I’d go with “sincere conduct” and finding the right view, right resolve, right speech, right conduct for every situation.


Sorry for running so long, and I hope I have not overstepped with my words here.

[emoji1374] Sat

[Jundo]

I would normally not post a reply if Jundo already has…

Oh no, why do that?!

Go against your self nature, and do the not so difficult thing ... post. Don't worry 'bout me! Oh my.

Gassho, J

stlah

[Bion]

Oh no, why do that?!

Go against your self nature, and do the not so difficult thing ... post. Don't worry 'bout me! Oh my.

Gassho, J

stlah

Most of the time ( unless it’s like a personal opinion or experience kind of thing) it is just redundant. You dish out enough wisdom and knowledge for my words to be unnecessary. Happy with that [emoji1]

[emoji1374] Sat

[Kokuu]

Now to practice zazen in daily life, I am trying to stay put in a difficult situation at work and also trying to completely let go of control at home. Both feel painful. I'm sticking and trying to do them still.

I'm wondering how important is to take this painful route versus sitting zazen till things start to become naturally easier and then do those with lesser pain. How have you practiced with difficult situations in your life?

Hi Sam

What I notice is that you say you are trying to let go of control. As JinKan says in the piece that Jundo posted, there is no need to do anything except observe. You do not need to change how things are, but just observe how they are, and the arising and passing of wanting to be in control.

Likewise, in work environments, we are likely going to have to work with difficult people from time to time. All we can do is do our best in that situation and work with it as seems appropriate. We do not need to try and control everything.

It seems to me you are already quite aware of these patterns of behaviour in yourself and how they work based on causes and conditions. I think that the practice of Zazen that you have identified as being able to sit with difficult feelings, is a good model here. It is okay to have difficult feelings, and it is okay not to be in control. It is also worth letting go of the idea that things will become naturally easier over time. Sometimes things just are as they are. I get the feeling you are wanting to get some gain out of practice in terms of control over how hard things are. That might be something else to observe.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Ryumon]

Due to our karmic-conditioning, we are born with a nature that can make certain things difficult.

Other, wiser people have responded to your post, but I just want to focus on this sentence. Karmic conditioning, as I understand it, isn’t absolute. It doesn’t gives us a nature that can “make certain things difficult.” What it does is predispose us to certain trends, it may influence us, but the karmic world is not a deterministic world where we have no control over our actions.

It’s the age old question of nature vs. nurture. Our karma may lead us toward certain ways of being, but they are not absolute.

Gassho,
Ryūmon (Kirk)
Sat

[shikantazen]

Thanks all for your wisdom. I should have been more specific when I said anger and control at home. This is nothing major. Just usual spending differences between my wife and me and children getting on our nerves with all the jumping around they do at home.

My question is more about all such examples in general. When I read books on "way of bodhisattva" or compassion, they seem to say to sacrifice your needs for others (e.g., praise those who blame us, wish the best for those who harm us and do good for them etc...). As an ideal it is inspiring but in practice (say difficult people at work) it seems very difficult. Much easier to run away or control things.

From your replies it seems the general consensus is to try to be in the difficult situation a bit longer than our limits, watching it with a sincere and curious mindset, and to keep letting the thoughts go. We practice this way moment by moment without wanting anything to change. Thanks Ryumon for feedback on fixed nature.

My curiosity is if this kind of pain taking is an efficient way to practice (compared to just letting zazen loosen the boundaries of self before we attempt the difficult things). Yes Kokuu, I seem to have a gaining idea (slowly loosening the illusion of self) from my zazen. Won't things get easier as you sit long? Won't it be much efficient (less painful) if I delay my "daily life" practice (or bodhisattva practice) to when things become relatively easier?

Gassho,
Sam
ST

[Bion]

Thanks all for your wisdom. I should have been more specific when I said anger and control at home. This is nothing major. Just usual spending differences between my wife and me and children getting on our nerves with all the jumping around they do at home.

My question is more about all such examples in general. When I read books on "way of bodhisattva" or compassion, they seem to say to sacrifice your needs for others (e.g., praise those who blame us, wish the best for those who harm us and do good for them etc...). As an ideal it is inspiring but in practice (say difficult people at work) it seems very difficult. Much easier to run away or control things.

From your replies it seems the general consensus is to try to be in the difficult situation a bit longer than our limits, watching it with a sincere and curious mindset, and to keep letting the thoughts go. We practice this way moment by moment without wanting anything to change. Thanks Ryumon for feedback on fixed nature.

My curiosity is if this kind of pain taking is an efficient way to practice (compared to just letting zazen loosen the boundaries of self before we attempt the difficult things). Yes Kokuu, I seem to have a gaining idea (slowly loosening the illusion of self) from my zazen. Won't things get easier as you sit long? Won't it be much efficient (less painful) if I delay my "daily life" practice (or bodhisattva practice) to when things become relatively easier?

Gassho,
Sam
ST

Why take the “painful” approach?
I’d compare it with the training of an athlete or bodybuilder. Why push beyond what is comfortable and why do it continuously? Well, to expand our tolerance, to drop away resistance and to understand our limits and limitations. Same with difficult situations: why do we endure? Because we soften with time and realize that “difficult” also comes from us. We gain wisdom and experience and we develop good qualities.
When working on applying buddhist principles in life, of course we have goals and we want to change and improve as beings. Until we naturally manifest the ideal boddhisatva qualities, we emulate them daily, wholeheartedly. If we emulate a boddhisatva for one day, we are a boddhisatva for one day. If we do that daily… well.. what are we in the end? [emoji1]

Sorry again for being so wordy.

[emoji1374] Sat today lah

[Kokuu]

My curiosity is if this kind of pain taking is an efficient way to practice (compared to just letting zazen loosen the boundaries of self before we attempt the difficult things). Yes Kokuu, I seem to have a gaining idea (slowly loosening the illusion of self) from my zazen. Won't things get easier as you sit long? Won't it be much efficient (less painful) if I delay my "daily life" practice (or bodhisattva practice) to when things become relatively easier?

I see the bodhisattva ideal as giving your self to life completely in each moment. I don't worry about whether it will become easier or harder in the future, but just what is in front of me right now.

I don't know that things are easier for me now than when I began practice, but I do know that I tend to worry less about thinking and judging situations and just do what needs to be done.

Practically speaking, there are good ways to work with people who are difficult, such as Non-Violent Communication (NVC) and similar approaches, and also putting the difficult people into metta practice.

Everything is right here, right now, try not to think of what a bodhisattva would do and just do the best thing as best you can. Give of yourself fully as much of the time as you can and the future takes care of itself.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Kokuu]

I do want to say, Sam, that I am always heartened by your dedication to practice and desire to just keep working on things. If I may offer one piece of advice it would be to let go of some of the rigidity and reliance on certain teachings in favour of trusting your own essential nature and ability to respond in the right way that is beyond thinking.

I found things so much easier when I gave up the notion of trying to be a good Buddhist or live up to the teachings and instead just respond to what is in front of me in a way that helps others.

Gassho
Kokuu

[Amelia]

I also try to control a lot of things at home. It can be quite a burden, causing one to feel a lot of resentment. When I realize that I am trying to be too controlling I make an effort to let go of a lot of the things I don't need to control and see what it is I'm really trying to avoid by controlling everything else.

Returning to zazen when overwhelmed really helps me sometimes. Training the mind to let go of unskillful thoughts of making things go my way and making people do things my way, bit by bit. Learning to gently guide with calm instead of telling it aggressively.

I am still grieving the death of my dog and it comes up a lot as aggression toward everyone around me not being as observant as I am about a lot of the things in the house... but I am only hyperfocused on the house because I am avoiding feelings of grief. Gotta let it all stir up and settle on its own, and not force it.

Gassho
Sat, lah

[shikantazen]

Thanks everyone. I emailed Okumura roshi on this and this is his response. Just want to share here. I think it is same as the advice given here. moment by moment being with things as they are watching both inside (our reactions) and outside (world).

Since I don't know your current situation, I cannot say concrete thing.
Uchiyama Roshi said that our life is like driving a car.
We need to keep awakening seeing inside the car and the conditions of outside world and we need to operate all devices such as acceralator, blake pedal, steering wheel, etc. carefully.
Zazen practice may be helpful to keep us awake.
But you need to watch all over scenery inside and outside the car.

Gassho,
Sam
ST

[Bion]

Thanks everyone. I emailed Okumura roshi on this and this is his response. Just want to share here. I think it is same as the advice given here. moment by moment being with things as they are watching both inside (our reactions) and outside (world).



Gassho,
Sam
ST

That is lovely. Okumura Roshi clearly is one of us, abiding by the three sentence rule. Not too wordy, not too vague. Just enough. [emoji3526]

[emoji1374] Sat today lah