Mad at the Buddha for abandoning his family

[Eikyo]

As it says above.

The Buddha abandoned his young son.

I don't know why it's never dawned on me before but this is a pretty big issue.

I get that something very good came out of it but as someone who was also abandoned by my father I can say it is without a doubt one of the most harmful things to ever happen to me that lay the path for much further trauma.

So I'm mad because now the Buddha just seems like another guy who abandons his family and leaves his wife to pick up the pieces.

Argh!

It is OK to think the Buddha is a jerk for doing this, right?

And still I sit.

Gassho,
Eikyō
Sat

[Veronica]

I'm new to the readings and I was aghast when I learned that this hero abandoned his son. It seems very normal that this would open your own wounds and make you feel anger. It would be hard not to compare the two situations. Parents should take care of their kids.
I do consider that his own mother had died after his birth and he was raised by his aunt who married his father, so probably he had some early family issues himself. Plus society was different and maybe it was more acceptable to leave, or maybe not. I assume that Gautama Buddha would have preferred to not abandon his son but felt this was necessary rather than selfish or intentionally unkind.
I wish you peace and send you healing thoughts.
Veronica
Sat today.

[Bion]

As it says above.

The Buddha abandoned his young son.

I don't know why it's never dawned on me before but this is a pretty big issue.

I get that something very good came out of it but as someone who was also abandoned by my father I can say it is without a doubt one of the most harmful things to ever happen to me that lay the path for much further trauma.

So I'm mad because now the Buddha just seems like another guy who abandons his family and leaves his wife to pick up the pieces.

Argh!

It is OK to think the Buddha is a jerk for doing this, right?

And still I sit.

Gassho,
Eikyō
Sat

Well, put things in context! He left when he was desperately lost and looking for something, then almost killed himself trying to find something he couldn’t pinpoint. Of course it was a jerk move, but rooted in suffering, so we can all identify with it and see ourselves in it. It is thus a Siddharta worthy of compassion who continued to write that story, and whose family were later a part of his life. Sometimes we just have to step back and see the whole picture, I believe. That’s just my totally uninformed take on it.

Sorry I ran long!

[emoji1374] Sat today

[Naiko]

This part of the story has always bothered me as well. There is a lot in Buddhist literature that is upsetting, such as Buddha trying to deny his step mother a place in his sangha, and the writings that say anyone in a woman’s body can’t attain enlightenment. I think this says more about the status of women and children in society 2500 years ago than it does about Buddha. I remind myself there’s a lot we don’t know. We don’t really know the details of the Buddha’s life or if he existed at all (though I think scholars think he did). I think early Christianity encouraged people to leave their families for the church too (my memory of early church history is a bit fuzzy, it’s been decades..). I guess the way I reconcile this is by believing that religions must evolve with society. I am frequently aware that all the zen masters we study, all the stories we read are all about men. It’s something I sit with and use to understand why representation matters so much in all areas of society.
Sorry for rambling sentences.
Gassho,
Naiko
st

[Koushi]

One important thing to keep in mind is that we cannot know for sure (though it's unlikely) that the story of Buddha as we know it is historically accurate in a "Buddha biography" sense. However, if put into context as a teaching-tool or story, things can become more palatable (and useful).

In the time and place of the Buddha, if we take things in the story at face-value, here's someone who seemingly had everything any lay person could want: Prestige, status, wealth, and a healthy son (very important). And yet, when faced with the realities of cravings, old age, sickness, and death, he knew he would not find liberation from these things where he was with what he had.

Following the story, even after enlightenment, he chose to continue living among people and living out his days teaching and helping others. These (especially) early teachings and stories were very pragmatic. To realize enlightenment he had to do XYZ, where in this case XYZ was leaving home, practicing various forms of asceticism, and ultimately attaining enlightenment.

It's safe to say that abandoning one's children, family, and responsibilities can be a selfish thing—as it's also safe to say that sometimes a diseased parent leaving their children is the best thing for them. In terms of the Buddha's story, it fits the narrative. In terms of your life, it was traumatic and IMO it's OK to feel how you feel when you recognized this in relation to your own life.

Sorry for running long,

Gassho,
Koushi
STLaH

[Rich]

My memory of the story is that his wife became a nun in the buddhas sangha and his son became a monk in his teen years and eventually became enlightened. So Buddha did a bad thing to make a good thing.

Sat/lah


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[Jundo]

Hi Eikyo,

As a "married monk" with wife and kids, I also feel that the Buddha made a mistake in so strictly encouraging celibacy and "home-leaving," not only for himself, but for his thousands upon thousands of then current and later Ordained followers. It is not that celibacy is wrong for all people (I would never say that!), and it may be very right for many folks who need to separate themselves from home and social responsibilities in order to practice. However, I feel that Japanese Buddhism actually took a very good turn about 150 years ago (for some Japanese sects, many centuries before that) in recognizing a married clergy, similar to the turn in Christianity in which a celibate Catholic priesthood gave rise to a married Protestant clergy.

That said, I will play devils advocate (Mara's advocate) for the Buddha a bit:

He did leave his child and wife in a palace, surrounded by family and wealth. It was not as if he abandoned them to fend for themselves. (As was noted by Koushi, the story is largely a much later legend, so we cannot be sure of the details. Nonetheless, this is the traditional story.) As was noted above, he was an emotionally broken man when he left (I have sometimes entertained the possibility, although there is no evidence for this whatsoever in the traditional literature, that perhaps he was not into women, and that was part of his crisis. We have much more understanding today of people forced into gender roles against their will and understanding. Whatever the case, he was a troubled and nearly broken man.) Also, eventually, wife and child joined his Ordained Sangha, and his son became one of his monks. Thus, there was a great reconciliation in the end.

http://nalanda-insatiableinoffering.blogspot.com/2010/04/visit-to-kapilvasthu-rahula-joined.html

That said, I fear that the same cannot be said for all the Buddha's monk followers, some of whom seem to have left wives and family in more precarious states. As the above link notes, it sometimes caused resentment against the Buddhists, who were seen as breaking up families. This continued in China, where Buddhist values of celibacy and home-leaving went against the traditional Confucian values there which emphasized family and the need to parent children. Dogen and many traditional Zen folks continued this emphasis. In one section of the Zuimonki which I very much disagree with, Dogen counsels a young priest that it is best to leave his aging and impoverished mother to fend for herself, while her only child continues as a monk.

Hmmm. Not the best solution if you ask me, in modern view.

However, let me put on my "Mara's Advocate" hat again for a minute: The defense by Dogen in that section, and the defense of the celibate Buddhists in China against Confucian critics, was that life is precarious anyway (death is always near, especially so in medieval times), and that the truly filial and good child sees to the well-being of his mother spiritually via his practice with a focus on the merit thus gained for both their future lives, etc. True love and compassion is to care for their spiritual well-being and, what is more, "heaven will somehow provide" ... As Dogen writes:

3-14

A monk said, “My aged mother is still alive. I am her only son. She lives solely by my support. Her love for me is especially deep and my desire to fulfill my filial duties is also deep. I am somewhat engaged in worldly affairs and have relationships with people; with their help I obtain clothing and food for my mother. If I leave the world and live alone in a hermitage, my mother cannot expect to live for even one day. Yet it is difficult for me to stay in the secular world without being able to enter the Buddha-Way completely because of the necessity of taking care of her. Still, if there is some reason I should abandon her and enter the Way, what might it be?”

Dogen instructed,

This is a difficult matter. No one else can decide for you. After carefully considering it, if you truly aspire to practice the Buddha-Way it would be good for both you and your mother to somehow prepare or find a means to ensure your mother's livelihood and enter the Buddha-Way. What you earnestly wish for you will definitely attain. If you wish to beat a strong enemy, to gain favor with some noble lady, or to obtain some precious treasure, if your desire is strong enough you will surely find some means to attain your wish. It will certainly be completed with the unseen help of the beneficent deities of Heaven and Earth. ...

Taking care of your mother until she dies and afterwards entering the Buddha-Way without any problems would seem to be the natural order of events and the ideal way of fulfilling your true aspiration. Yet no one knows what will happen, since there is no certainty that an old person will die sooner than a younger person. Your mother may live a long time and you may die before she does. In such a case, since your plan did not work, you would regret not having entered the Buddha-Way and your mother would feel guilty for not having permitted you to do so. There would be no merit for either of you and both of you would feel guilty. Would that be of any value? If you abandon your present life and enter the Buddha-Way, even if your mother dies of starvation, wouldn't it be better for you to form a connection with the Way and for her to permit her only son to enter the Way? Although it is most difficult to cast aside filial love even over aeons and many lifetimes, if, having being born in a human body you give it up in this lifetime, when you encounter the Buddha's teachings you will be truly fulfilling your debt of gratitude. Why wouldn't this be in accordance with the Buddha's will? It is said that if one child leaves home to become a monk, seven generations of parents will attain the Way.
https://terebess.hu/zen/dogen/Shobogenzo-Zuimonki.pdf

Do I agree with this personally? No, not at all. But I am not someone of Iron Age India or 13th Century Japan, where life expectancy was short and all lived hard lives. There was an emphasis then that this world is so painful, so hard, and life so short, that the monk played a special role in transcending it ... a role somehow even more important that merely being a father or son paying the bills. Koushi puts it particularly well and succinctly here:

Following the story, even after enlightenment, he chose to continue living among people and living out his days teaching and helping others. These (especially) early teachings and stories were very pragmatic. To realize enlightenment he had to do XYZ, where in this case XYZ was leaving home, practicing various forms of asceticism, and ultimately attaining enlightenment.

As I said, I don't personally agree with that for today (in fact, I very much disagree) ... but things were different then.

Gassho, J

stlah

[Kokuu]

My memory of the story is that his wife became a nun in the buddhas sangha and his son became a monk in his teen years and eventually became enlightened. So Buddha did a bad thing to make a good thing.

I often wonder if these things were later additions to give everything a happy ending?

Eikyō, I have thought similarly and hate the story where he kisses his sleeping wife and son goodbye before going off into the night with his chariot driver, Chandaka, on a spiritual quest. I remember asking about it on a Buddhist retreat many years ago and first being met with blank looks, then reassured that Yasodhara and Rahula would have been fine because they were in a palace, which I don't think was entirely the point.

Anyway, I think your reaction is not an uncommon one, and certainly a very human one from a parent. I could not leave my kids to go on a spiritual search and fortunately, thanks to Treeleaf and Jundo, have not had to. I don't think that the Buddha gets a pass on this because he went on to found a new religion.

There are some interesting writings coming out now from female Buddhist writers and teachers putting a long absent women's perspective on the Buddha's life story which you might enjoy. Ann Cushman writes of the Buddha's birth: https://tricycle.org/article/buddhas-birth/ And Wendy Garling has written two books (of which I had read the first and love it) about the women in the Buddha's life (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...-stars-at-dawn) and his foster mother Mahapajapati (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...sed-the-buddha). This is an article by her on forgotten stories of the Buddha's mother: https://tricycle.org/article/three-f...uddhas-mother/

Thank you for bringing this up. There are problem areas of both the Buddha's life, and Buddhism in general, when it comes to the treatment of women, and it seems wrong to gloss over these.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Ryumon]

How true is it, that he left his family? How true is it even that he had a family, or lived in a palace? It could all be embellishment. In Joseph Campbell's research on the hero's journey in myths, the first step was always leaving home. Whether it's Shakyamuni or Luke Skywalker, they all leave home with a feeling of dread of the unknown.

Perhaps when the story was concocted, and he was said to have left his family because that would sound more radical. Perhaps he never had a family. Perhaps he was an incel.

It's probably best to not give too much credence to those details and just look at Shakyamuni's journey as one of an archetypal search for the truth. We just don't know.

Gassho,

Ryūmon (Kirk)

sat

[Gustaf Källvik]

Well, he wasn't enlightened at he time of leaving his family, was he? So...

~stlah~

[aprapti]

Eikyo, thanks for bringing this up.

Many of the story's in Buddhism, Judaism and Christianity i consider as myth, as story's that are true but did not necessarily happen. We don't know what really happened, but it is something we have to deal with.


aprapti


sat

[Gustaf Källvik]

Well, he wasn't enlightened at he time of leaving his family, was he? So...

~stlah~

I mean, isn't it reasonable to think that Siddharta Gautama, caught up in defilements and delusion, could have done such a thing?
Isn't it also comforting that he, in the midst of those defilements and that delusion, saw a glimpse of something else?

I bow to that! x3

~stlah~

[Jundo]

By chance, there was a local story on the TV today, from here in Tsukuba (home to Japan's astronauts). The Japanese space program made its selection of 10 candidates for the moon program ...

Some are married, some have kids ... yet they feel a "higher" calling (bit of a pun there) enough to risk their lives ...

https://www.tellerreport.com/life/2023-01-01-jaxa-astronaut-selection-test-final-stage-announcement-of-successful-applicants-next-month-at-the-earliest.SJx938F19o.html

I also happened to watch this past week an American news program about the fire fighters who ran into the Twin Towers in New York on 9-11 ... many who died, knowing that they were leaving wives and kids ...

https://youtu.be/heGULQ_A-Xo

Are they to be faulted for making a similar choice?

In the days of the Buddha, of Dogen, is the spiritual path anything but exploration of space? Anything but putting out the fires that burn within?

Gassho, J

stlah

[Tairin]

Like aprapti I take most of the story as myth with some essence of truth so while I’ve never given this particular topic much thought I also don’t know enough of the true situation to get too worked up about it.

What I do know is that everyone’s life is different and that it is hard to judge the decisions someone makes without truly being in their shoes. You don’t know the factors, the situation, the stresses, the motivations that they are carrying.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Nenka]

I read an article online years ago that I've never been able to find again, but the gist of it was that the Buddha's story was basically archetypal, as Kirk suggests above. Like he wouldn't have been Prince Siddhartha; there were no princes or kings in India at that time and calling him such was just a way of expressing that he was wealthy and important in his community. Also, his search for enlightenment would have happened at a young age, and he was more likely to have left his father's/parents' house than to have left his own family, which he probably had later in life. I have no idea how accurate any of this might have been, and as I said, I can't find the article anymore and don't know how many Buddhist scholars would find it credible. I'm curious as to whether anyone else has heard this, though.

Gassho

Nenka

ST