Nembutsu, Juzu and Zen

[Tai Do]

Recently, my wife gave a really beautiful juzu made of açaí seeds that I’m trying to care around as a mindful reminder of Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. But I kind of want to give another use to it. So I thought about using it to recite the nembutsu 108 times once a day.

For some time now I’ve being mentally reciting the nembutsu (Namu Amida Butsu) in my mind as a mindful reminder of the practice of being in the present moment and a way to show gratitude for my existence here and now. I don’t know if I believe in Amida Buddha and his vows or in the Pure Land apart from a metaphor for emptiness and the buddha-nature shared by all beings. If I’m not wrong, this is not the Pure Land way of using the nembutsu.

I want to hear some Zen perspective on this practice of reciting the nembutsu and using the juzu. Or is this a case of asking on the wrong dojo?

Sorry about the long post.
Gassho
Mateus
Sat LAH

[Nengyoku]

I don't believe there is any particular mantra or dharani that we can't here at Treeleaf. Anything that you wish to chant which brings you peace of mind or mindfulness is enough.

Personally with my juzu I usually chant Om mani padme hum.
Once at a particularly low point I just changed the words "I am enough".
Whatever works for you is enough.

Gassho,
Nengyoku
Sat

[Bion]

I don't believe there is any particular mantra or dharani that we can't here at Treeleaf. Anything that you wish to chant which brings you peace of mind or mindfulness is enough.

Personally with my juzu I usually chant Om mani padme hum.
Once at a particularly low point I just changed the words "I am enough".
Whatever works for you is enough.

Gassho,
Nengyoku
Sat

Just to mention, we don’t do dharanis at Treeleaf as part of our ceremonies. [emoji1] Jundo can elaborate on that

[emoji1374] Sat Today

[Tomás ESP]

If I recall correctly, Nishijima focused quite a bit on reciting the Namu Amida Butsu mantra in the later part of his life (heard it from Brad Warner, not sure if the info is accurate, but I would presume it is). Aside from this, I have no idea on how to practice it or what impact it might have coupled with Shikantaza.

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

[Tokan]

Hey guys

I only performed such practices while living as a Sikh many years ago, I went straight to shinkantaza zazen from there, so have never practised with mala or mantras. I seem to remember that Jundo says that our practice at Treeleaf does not mean we have to give up other practices if they are meaningful to us - there are/have been Christians at Treeleaf over the years, Jundo has not told them to stop reciting the Lord's Prayer (well I don't think he did???) Also, we have practice circles such as the Tonglen circle, which has its roots in Tibetan Buddhism, but it is welcome here because of it's own value as a practice. I shall stop here though, Jundo or the priest team will no doubt clarify this for us.

Gassho, Tokan (satlah)

[Jundo]

Hi,

No, we don't generally chant Dharanis here at Treeleaf, because traditionally they are very much "abracadabra" like incantations to bring good fortune, and I think that we do not need that in these modern times when the real "magic" of life is all around us. Also, we do not practice with the "Other Power" of Amida, who is very much like the Buddhist Jesus, a savior figure to help someone when they need saving or a miracle, leading the believer to a "heaven" after this life. It is not usual to mix Amida Buddhism with Zen in Japan, though many do on the Asian continent (with the sense that asking the universe for help, and reaching out, is also reaching in. As well, it is often with the sense, much as Mateus describes, that the prayer does not pray to Jesus or Amida asking for help or rescue ... but more in gratitude for whatever is, whatever life contains.)

However, I do not mean to stop others from doing so in the personal practice. I just posted something on mixing practices, and the bottom line is ... if something works in you, and is helpful and has good results, then you might do so in your life ...

Treeleaf is a Dojo where a particular style is taught. It is much like saying that one can play tennis, but also like football, and both may be great sports. It is just that one needs to be careful about playing football with a tennis racket, or tennis with goal posts. Some ways do not mix well.

More here: https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...l=1#post309685

Tomas, I never heard or experienced that Nishijima Roshi recited or practiced Namu Amida Butsu mantra later in his life. Are you sure that Brad did not mean Uchiyama Roshi (or even D.T. Suzuki) who had some interest in Pure Land?

In any case, what about Juzu in Soto Zen? We have had some discussion of this from time to time, and it is interesting. I repost the entirety, but apologize for the length:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We have had a few threads in the past on this, so allow me to repost a few bit and pieces from those threads ... Much MUCH MUCH more info than probably anyone wants or needs on Juzu [Mala] beads ...

----------

First. let me just touch on your question "is a Practice such as reciting Buddha's name (or even the Christian Rosary) compatible with Zen practice?"

My view is that when one sits (and is sat and sittinging) Shikantaza Zazen, that is the ONLY Practice ... in that moment ... in all time and space. Nothing more need be done, nothing more can be done, nothing more in need of attaining as Zazen is Total Fulfillment. Whole and Complete. In that Timeless instant, nothing else, no other place to be or go. Only Zazen is Zazen. Period, end of story, case closed.

However, rising from the Zafu cushion ... anything can be Zazen ... changing the baby diaper, working in the office or garden, praying to Jesus (if that speaks to one's heart), reciting Metta or the Heart Sutra or the Practice you describe (if that speaks to one's heart). So yes, please do so if that speaks to your heart, and it sounds like a wonderful undertaking.

-------

For much much MUCH more information that you --ever-- will need on the specific styles and use of Juzu for the Soto and other schools, at least in Japan ...

... this fellow seems to have done his research on the many styles of Juzu for various sects (follow the link) ...

http://www.aetw.org/jsp_nenju_juzu.htm

In Japanese Soto, we are not too much into Mala beads ("Juzu" in Japanese) as a central part of practice, although that depends on how much there has been an influence of "esoteric" or "Pure Land" or other traditions of Buddhism on the particular lineage of Soto Zen over the centuries. They do play a role in some esoteric ceremonies.

Some folks use the Mala for counting repetitions in certain chants, much as they are used in Catholic prayer. Doing so is not a central practice of Soto Zen, unless the particular priest or practitioner has incorporated other traditions ... like the Jodo (Pure Land) practice of chanting to Amida Buddha (the Chinese Chan priests you might see from time to time often wear very large Mala ...



... as Chan has heavily mixed with Pure Land in China and Vietnam), or certain esoteric Buddhist rituals that folks picked up along the way. I once noticed, for example, that Ven. Anzan Hoshin in Canada sometimes uses Mala, but he seem to mix various Tibetan Practices in with his Zen.

As Buddhism moved from country to country, and culture to culture, bits of Hindu and Tantric elements were mixed into the teachings. The Juzu is one such item. Traditionally, it is an aid in chanting, serving as a counter (so you can keep your place), although a whole mess of mystical 'meanings' and powers came to be associated with the Mala beads themselves and the usual number of beads: 108 (or a divisor thereof).

Number of beads:
The formal nenju has 108 koshu 'children'/main beads, plus either one or two larger boshu 'parent' beads.

[The 108 koshu represent the 108 bonnou (earthly desires, worldly & or evil passions) which the follower of the Dharma seeks to overcome.]

There are also 'informal' nenju. These are commonly 1/4-size, having 27 koshu and one boshu parent-bead. However there are also informal nenju with 18 koshu (1/6th-size), 36 koshu (1/3rd) 54 koshu (1/2)

For just some of the many meanings of '108'. have a gander at this. It is wonderful:

http://www.salagram.net/108meaning.html

It is an item that traveled up and down the Silk Road, and is brother to the Catholic rosary (in my understanding).

One reason the beads are much loved is that there are more nerve endings on tips of the fingers than in any part of the body (if I recall), and thus the twirling of the beads is, well, sensual and most soothing. .Combined with the hypnotic rhythms of the chant, and you have an experience that one could lose oneself in ... literally.

Oh, and at various times in ages past, it has been seen as kind of a magic charm against evil spirits.

If you are in Japan today, you would see Juzu worn by many Soto priests, and used in ceremonies. Basically, over the centuries, many Tantric (esoteric) elements crept into the Zen schools too ... especially after the time of Dogen. However, some rather recent scholarship has shown that Dogen, while focused on Zazen, was not an opponent of some ritual and ceremony by any means ... he was, after all, just a Buddhist priest following many traditions ...

Although Dogen clearly extolled zazen (both the seated posture and the samadhi it promotes) as the sine qua non of Buddhism, it would be mistaken to conclude from this that he rejected all other forms of Buddhist practice. The specific rituals that seem to be disavowed in the Bendowa passage are all prescribed for Zen monks, often in great detail, in Dogen's other writings. In Kuyo shobutsu, Dogen recommends the practice of offering incense and making worshipful prostrations before Buddha images and stupas, as prescribed in the sutras and Vinaya texts. In Raihai tokuzui he urges trainees to reverence enlightened teachers and to make offerings and prostrations to them, describing this as a practice which helps pave the way to one's own awakening. In Chiji shingi he stipulates that the vegetable garden manager in a monastery should participate together with the main body of monks in sutra chanting services (fugin), recitation services (nenju) in which buddhas' names are chanted (a form of nenbutsu practice), and other major ceremonies, and that he should burn incense and make prostrations (shoko raihai) and recite the buddhas' names in prayer morning and evening when at work in the garden. The practice of repentences (sange) is encouraged in Dogen's Kesa kudoku, in his Sanji go, and his Keisei sanshiki . Finally, in Kankin, Dogen gives detailed directions for sutra reading services (kankin) in which, as he explains, texts could be read either silently or aloud as a means of producing merit to be dedicated to any number of ends, including the satisfaction of wishes made by lay donors, or prayers on behalf of the emperor.

History of the Soto Zen School
by T. Griffith Foulk

http://www.terebess.hu/english/zenschool.html

(Although, if I may say, the beads probably remain less the focus of attention in Japanese Soto than in any of the other Japanese schools such as Jodo, Nichiren, Tendai and Shingon ... not sure about Rinzai practice. Soto priests may wear them but, as far as I know, they are not used very much for particular purpose outside of such ceremonies. Some Soto priests may develop a special feeling for the Juzu, but that is there own personal feeling and philosophy. Most lay followers in all traditions and all countries would have beads and wear them for funerals and such, but most would just do so as a custom without any particular idea why or what they stand for.

So, why do I wear beads sometimes? Good question!

Well, why do I wear a Grateful Dead t-shirt sometimes?

In all seriousness, it may be more a symbol for being a Buddhist in my mind than anything else, much as a Star of David for Judaism or a Cross on a chain for Christians. I do not consider them much more than that in my mind. ... more a symbol of our tradition than anything. Others may have other views.

Gassho, Jundo

PS --- and if that is not enough here are a few other interesting Mala Facts from various schools and from a Mala manufacturer ... make sure you have it on the right hand, or is it the left?

{Explanation from a Pure Land temple in California] The Nenjie is always held in the left hand since the left hand represents the world of Samsara with its 108 Bonno. The right hand represents the world of Nirvana. It is through the use of the Nenju that the two utterly different worlds of Samsara and Nirvana are seen in their essential Oneness - that is to say, the bringing together of the left hand of Samsara and the right hand of Nirvana into the Oneness of the Gassho. From a Jodoshinshu point of view, one can say that the left hand of Samsara, of the 108 passions of egotism is the world of Namo, of "I, myself; me." The right hand of Nirvana is the world of Amidabutsu, the real world of Amida Buddha. The Nenju brings together these two seemingly opposite worlds into the Oneness of Namoamidabutsu; not Namo, or Amidabutsu separately, but Namoamidabutsu.

In the Nishi Hongwanji tradition of Jodoshinshu, the Nenju encircles the hands in Gassho with the tassel or strings hanging below the two palms and the two thumbs resting lightly on the beads. There are a number of ways of holding the Nenju depending upon the sect, school, or tradition of Buddhism. The Jodo Sect of Honen Shonin for example, places the Nenju around the thumbs of the hands in Gassho. The Higashi Honganji tradition of Jodoshinshu places the Nenju around the hands in Gassho with the string or tassel end held between the thumbs and base of the index fingers. Priests of the Shingon Sect (Koyasan) use several gestures depending upon the ceremony, one of them being to drape the Nenju around the index finger of the left hand and the

middle finger of the right hand at the Oyadama and enclosing the strand of beads between the two palms. The beads are then rubbed together producing a raffling sound. When not in use, the Nenju is held in the left hand or placed around the left wrist.

http://www.senshintemple.org/prajna/10_03.html

From a big Juzu manufacturer in Japan ... and perhaps the mirror image of what was said above ...

A rosary is rightly worn on your left wrist when you are sitting and is rightly held in your left hand when walking; the left hand represents the pure world of the Buddha, the right hand the religious world we walk in.

http://www.echizenya.co.jp/english/juzu1.htm

also ...

The mala is traditionally worn by Buddhist monks, nuns and lay practitioners around the left wrist. It can be worn also around the neck, but take care not to make prayers while it is worn this way. The reason for this, as told to us by a Tibetan monk, is that the purpose, or intention of jewelry is as an adornment. A mala’s purpose is for making blessings. To use your mala, it’s recommended to always hold it in your left hand. This may be tradition, but there are probably Tantric reasons for it that are related to energy – channels and chakras.

http://the12stepbuddhist.com/what-is-a-mala-how-to-use-tibetan-prayer-beads

Hindu tradition holds that the correct way to use a mala is with the right hand, with the thumb flicking one bead to the next, and with the mala draped over the middle finger. The index finger was considered rude, and so was also considered bad to use it with a mala. Buddhism, however, explained that there was no sense in this, and so taught that it was perfectly acceptable to use the mala in the left hand with any fingers. In Tibetan Buddhism (tantra), depending on the practice, there may be preferred ways of holding the mala (left or right hand, rolling the beads over the index or any of the other fingers etc..

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Japa_mala/id/505274

[Tokan]

Tokan (satlah)

[Tai Do]

Thanks, Jundo and everybody.
I will try chanting with the juzu around my hands in gassho and see if I can make a good sound.
I will continue to use the nembutsu as I’ve been doing, but my big practice will certainly be Shikantaza Zazen.

Mateus
Sat LAH

[Tomás ESP]

Tomas, I never heard or experienced that Nishijima Roshi recited or practiced Namu Amida Butsu mantra later in his life. Are you sure that Brad did not mean Uchiyama Roshi (or even D.T. Suzuki) who had some interest in Pure Land?

Could be! I do not have the specific video were he mentions it, but I believe he was talking about Nishijima. I remember because it kind of struck me as interesting, but I might be wrong, of course.

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

[Jundo]

Could be! I do not have the specific video were he mentions it, but I believe he was talking about Nishijima. I remember because it kind of struck me as interesting, but I might be wrong, of course.

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

Would you message him and ask him about that ... because I would actually be rather shocked if that was the case. Nishijima just was never called that way, as far as I know.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Tomás ESP]

Would you message him and ask him about that ... because I would actually be rather shocked if that was the case. Nishijima just was never called that way, as far as I know.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

You were right Jundo, my memory betrayed me Brad has confirmed that it was indeed Kosho Uchiyama Roshi. He literally says:

Kosho Uchiyama Roshi practiced nembutsu later in life due to problems sitting zazen. Or so I have heard...

In terms of the practice of Pure Land, I found this very informative video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qJazZozJOI

It helps understand that it is not only a practice towards a Jesus Christ like figure. It is about recognizing the Amidha Buddha that we all already are:

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

[Jundo]

In terms of the practice of Pure Land, I found this very informative video: It helps understand that it is not only a practice towards a Jesus Christ like figure. It is about recognizing the Amidha Buddha that we all already are:

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

I listened to the talk. I would still say that, for 98% of the people in Asia I have met who practice with faith in Amida and the Pure Land, it is basically much like faith in a Savior who will lead one to a "Good Place" when one dies, where the ice cream always flows and nobody has to work, get sick or suffer like in this world.

It is possible for some to find the common ground (non-ground) with Zen where Amida is just some ultimate, and the "Pure Land" is not a "place" (the priest in the video waffles on that a bit in the video). However, one has to have a very sophisticated, symbolic understanding of "Amida" and the "Pure Land" to assert so. Most Pure Land folks I know would think more in the following terms, a little video from one of the larger Pure Land organizations:

https://youtu.be/g2WwoVN7GPQ

I do not think it a bad thing if such beliefs (like belief in Jesus) brings comfort to someone's heart.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Ryumon]

When I was involved with Tibetan buddhism, the mala was an essential tool: I think you had to recite Om mani padme hum 108 trillion times to attain enlightenment.

I always felt that it was a relaxing thing to do, to spin the beads; I can't find a link, but I'm sure I read something about how the nerve endings in the fingertips when moving the beads had some effect on relaxation. I guess this is similar to the Chinese baoding balls that you spin around in your hands.

BTW, I have one of these Therabody Wave thingies, and you turn it on, it vibrates, and I find it immensely relaxing to close my hand around it. It stimulates all the nerves in the hands, probably in a similar way to shiatsu. I like to do a sort of kinhin in my office while holding this in one hand then the other.

https://www.therabody.com/uk/en-gb/wave-solo.html

Gassho,

Ryūmon (Kirk)

sat

[Tomás ESP]

Thank you for the feedback Jundo. I wasn't aware the % was so high, though now that I read your post, I recall you mentioned it in Episode 1 of the new series in the podcast.

That is some very interesting info Ryumon, thanks for sharing. I will check it out further, sign me up for stuff that regulates the nervous system

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

[Tai Do]

Thank you Tomás and Jundo. I liked the approach of that monk in the interview -seems similar to mine. Any reading suggestions on Pure Land and Zen/Chan to read more about it?
Gassho
Mateus
Sat