Practising giving for future merits?

[vanbui]

Hi,
I have a question about the practice of giving for obtaining merits. All Buddhist traditions, including Soto Zen, often encourage lay people to give money or material goods and foods to monks in order to receive merits for good fortune or a good rebirth in the next life. This is particularly emphasised in Theravada traditions. I have mixed feelings about this as I don’t believe in obtaining merits for good fortune or rebirth. Obviously, we should endeavour to do good deeds and avoid doing harmful things. I recognise the importance of cultivating generosity and dana is the first paramitas: perfection of generosity. However, I feel uneasy about enticing people to give by promising future rewards.

I find the story of Bodhidharma and Emperor Wu very helpful to this query:
Emperor Wu asked “I have built temples and ordained monks; what is my merit?”
Bodhidharma immediately replied, “No merit whatsoever.”

In Shishobo, Dogen says: “Foolish people think that if they help others first, their own benefit will be lost, but this is not so. Beneficial action is an act of oneness, benefiting self and others together.”

For me, the last line from Dogen stating that a beneficial action is an act of oneness encapsulates the wisdom of practising dana. What do you think about the practice of encouraging people to do good things by enticing future rewards?

Gassho
SAT+LAH
Van

[Bion]

Practising giving for future merits?

For me, the first question should be “how is merit defined”? In my opinion, beneficial karma has merit… It means I chose and did my best to benefit someone else, I did something selflessly, I prioritized someone else but myself, I erased the separation between myself and others… I apply that to everything willingly done, when done wholeheartedly and with a devoted, compassionate and unified mind. It’s like seeds planted that might result in sweet fruit, but they might also be smothered by weeds… Regardless of that, I plant them.

Sorry for running a bit long

[emoji1374] Sat Today

[Rich]

Hi,
What do you think about the practice of encouraging people to do good things by enticing future rewards?

Gassho
SAT+LAH
Van

I think it’s a con because many people won’t give unless they get. There is no future merit. If it exists it’s right here and now

Sat/lah




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jundo]

I don't have much interest in whether giving results in a better rebirth, or whether or not there will be a better rebirth ...

... but I believe in giving in this life. All sentient beings deserve the necessities of life, food, shelter, education, safety, medicine, clothing and more.

We should not give primarily for our own benefit and pleasure (I question someone who does good simply for their public image, like a corporation which donates to a children's charity just for publicity while continuing to dump toxins in a river). However, I see nothing wrong with the giver taking some pleasure and satisfaction in doing good works. Why not? Did not Buddha enjoy some good feelings in ministering to others as the Buddha? Did not Dogen take some pleasure in his good works as Dogen? I assume that they did, although truly benefitting others too. Maybe it should not be the "main" reason, but pleasure in giving can be part of the reason.

We Mahayana Buddhists recall that giver-the gift-the giving-&-recipient are truly one. Tom giving a gift to Mary is just Mary giving as Tom, Tom receiving as Mary, and TomMary giving TomMary to TomMary. Each is just a face of the other.

Gassho, J

STLah

PS - And if there is a future life, and good Karma for all this results in a good rebirth, what's the harm in that? In fact, traditional Mahayana Buddhists believe that we should even give away and donate to others the "merit" of our good Karma which (strangely enough) results in EXTRA good Karma to be earned by the good Karma donator due to the generosity of giving! A true Win-Win for all concerned!

[Neika]

Perhaps we think of future merit, good fortune, rebirth and the like, in the wrong way. Are we not, from moment to moment, reborn? We are constantly changing, who we are today is not who we will be a year from now or a decade from now, or even a day from now. Are we not, in many ways, being reborn - regularly? Is our karma (however you want to interpret that word) not affecting us from moment to moment? Giving dana absolutely does have future merit, but that future may be sooner than the next life, or not. Regardless of when or how, generosity is always good.

Gassho, Neika
--st

[Shoki]

Good points all around but on the other hand I wonder if it really matters all that much. As long as the good deed gets done, it's done whether you get any reward or not. If I do some little random act of kindness or whatever, I don't really think of it as me doing it. I just think; this needs to be done so see to it that this gets done.

Gassho
STlah
Shoki

[Bion]

Good points all around but on the other hand I wonder if it really matters all that much. As long as the good deed gets done, it's done whether you get any reward or not. If I do some little random act of kindness or whatever, I don't really think of it as me doing it. I just think; this needs to be done so see to it that this gets done.

Gassho
STlah
Shoki

I guess in a way, we hold ourselves accountable through that, which is why we look at it as merit. But, as we do during each and every zazenkai, we then take that merit and offer it generously yet again. That’s what the eko is, surrendering one’s “karma points” on behalf of someone else. Just continuous kindness [emoji3526]

[emoji1374] Sat Today

[vanbui]

Thank you Jundo and everyone for all your insightful responses. I'm sorry for the delayed reply as I have been working all day.

Bion, I like what you say about beneficial karma and I believe this is similar to what Dogen say in Shisobo about about beneficial action is an act of oneness so we erase the separation between ourself and others. The practice of generosity is a wonderful and powerful practice; hence, dana is the first of the Paramita.

Neika, I always prefer the idea of being reborn moment to moment then the idea of future rebirth. I agree from that perspective then giving for future merit appears less relevant.

Gassho
Can
Sat lah

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

[Jundo]

Let me add that, besides material goods or money, one donates many good things in Buddhism ... such as Buddhist teachings, friendship, emotional support, and all Buddhist practice including Ceremonies and, yes, our Zazen.

We do not sit Zazen simply for ourselves, but as a gift for all sentient beings.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Tairin]

Lovely discussion. Thank you.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Seiko]

I am sorry to arrive late at this discussion. Who knows? Yes please do care for others, for nature, the world. But I feel sad when I see folk telling the world how good they are because they have given to charity or done someone a good turn. My instinct is to do what I can, give when I can, and not to dwell on it, and not to tell social media how wonderful I am each day. Doing good things is lovely. If there is merit, there it is. Doing something good because it is good. And for me, keeping social media in the dark feels like the right choice.

Gassho
Seiko
stlah