What does the Bodhisattva vow mean to you?

[Meian]

I remember having a similar discussion shortly after Jukai, I think we were all a bit heady still from what we had just experienced. My answer remains the same, I think.

I consider myself a vowed Soto Zen Buddhist -- not special, but vowed and bound to the Bodhisattva precepts. My vows guide, inform, and shape everything else in my life -- interactions, decisions, helping others, working to restrain my tongue, and daily efforts to heal our ecosystem. It also informs other decisions, like what organizations I'll support or remain with -- if they align with my vows.

I also like to see it as "no one gets left behind or forgotten." That's how I view it, anyway.

Receiving my vows was a transformative, life-changing event for me. No matter where I am or what I'm doing, they influence and direct all things in my life. Not perfection, but infusion.

Sorry to run long and rambly.

Gassho, -- st/lh--

[Shinshi]

I remember having a similar discussion shortly after Jukai, I think we were all a bit heady still from what we had just experienced. My answer remains the same, I think.

I consider myself a vowed Soto Zen Buddhist -- not special, but vowed and bound to the Bodhisattva precepts. My vows guide, inform, and shape everything else in my life -- interactions, decisions, helping others, working to restrain my tongue, and daily efforts to heal our ecosystem. It also informs other decisions, like what organizations I'll support or remain with -- if they align with my vows.

I also like to see it as "no one gets left behind or forgotten." That's how I view it, anyway.

Receiving my vows was a transformative, life-changing event for me. No matter where I am or what I'm doing, they influence and direct all things in my life. Not perfection, but infusion.

Sorry to run long and rambly.

Gassho, -- st/lh--

Yes, this is one of they ways I think about this vow myself. My Dad was a Marine (during WWII) and so this idea was present in my life long before I found Buddhism.

Another way I think about this vow is that in saving all sentient beings, I need to include myself in the saving. The Dalai Lama said that having compassion for oneself is the basis for developing compassion for others. And so the Vow is also a commitment to practice diligently. To make sure I am putting the work in on myself so that I free myself from hindrances that would interfere with helping/saving others.

-sorry for running long.

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Jundo]

Why is it all so abstract, Jundo?
Whoever thought this level of abstraction would save any beings, sentient or not?

Gassho.

Hah! It is the simplest of simple! It is this world that is complicated, abstract, broken into pieces!

[Amelia]

In my experience some who walk this path are more about their own saving which has turned me away in the past….but I am still here.

If you have access to Tricycle, the current featured Dharma talk touches on this.

Beings are numberless, yet all are instantaneously saved immediately when one realizes liberation from all separate numbers and division.

I also like to see it as "no one gets left behind or forgotten."

Gassho
Sat, lah

[Jundo]

Samsara, this ordinary world in which we live, cannot be fixed. It will always be a messy, beautiful yet sometimes so very ugly, love but also conflict filled, good but also bad, life comes but then also sickness and death comes, fertile and creative jungle of ongoing change in which things are appearing, disappearing while struggling for survival in between. It will always be a mess that also produces wonderful and amazing things, like an old busy kitchen or noisy city, and maybe we can clean it up a bit and repair some things here and there, but then more mess appears and more broken things to fix.

Sorry, basic Buddhism 101 is that we cannot fix Samsara, only maybe tidy it up for awhile. Beings are numberless, delusions (a world of divisions, desires, frustrations) are inexhaustible. Only by freezing it into ice, taking all the life and change out, might one avoid that fact. But that would kill the universe, turn off the stove, empty the city, stop this amazing circus altogether!

We can try to fix things a little ... feed the hungry where we can, stop the violence where we can, end the wars where we can, cure the diseases where we can, but it will never be perfect. It is a Sisyphean task, as in the story of the fellow who keeps rolling a big stone up a mountain which then proceeds, again and again, to roll down and right over him. He then proceeds to try again, but the stone never arrives at a resting place at the top. We can make this world better (maybe much better, by doing things like ending wars, stopping pollution, curing cancer, and 1000 other achievements that I hope humankind someday attains), but there will always be rough edges, troubles, conflicts which cannot be resolved or which are newly appearing. Such is the nature of this world.

HOWEVER, what one can do is leap through all visions of this world of division and conflict, to the Flowing Wholeness which is the wonderful theatre which comes alive as this show happening! There is no death or birth, pieces, conflict and all the rest. There are no sentient beings simply because no separate pieces! No conflict because no separate pieces to conflict!

Then, as Mahayana Buddhists, we can go further ... to realize that all the death and birth, pieces and conflict ARE the Flowing Wholeness (aka "Emptiness" of separate self existence") and the Flowing Wholeness is precisely the show of death and birth, pieces and conflict. We can realize this even as we try to feed the hungry, cure the diseases we can, end the wars we can, cleans the oceans as best we can.

That is the only way to "save sentient beings, transform all delusions, perceive reality and attain enlightenment" (which is "unattainable" because the Flowing Wholeness is not something that can be "reached" any more than sand needs to "attain" and reach the beach on which it sits ... which beach the sand exactly is, while the sand is precisely the beach!)

Sorry, if you are looking for some other lesson, you have come to the wrong place!

The above is Buddhism and Zen 101 ... and any magazine article or teacher which tries to say that the point of Buddhism is merely to fix this world is offering a band-aid to cure a heart attack! Rather, the lesson of the Heart Sutra is that we can leap past all sentient hearts and heart attacks, to the Flowing Wholeness which is the true Life Pulse of reality ... something Beautiful and Peaceful and Good (all caps) for its vibrant wholeness ... even as, here on earth, we try to eat better, go to the gym (Jundo exercises every day! ), love with our hearts and not hate, and maybe have our scientists invent artificial hearts (and even that is only going to postpone the inevitable).

We are still going to die someday but, fortunately, Buddhism does not believe in death!

Gassho, J

STLah

Sorry to run long

[Bion]

Samsara cannot be fixed. It will always be a messy, beautiful yet sometimes so ugly, love but also conflict filled, good but also bad, life comes but then also sickness and death comes, fertile and creative jungle of ongoing change in which things are appearing, disappearing while struggling for survival in between. It will always be a mess, like an old busy kitchen or noisy city, and maybe we can clean it up a bit and repair some things here and there, but then more mess appears and more broken things to fix.

Sorry, basic Buddhism 101 is that we cannot fix Samsara, this ordinary world in which we live. Beings are numberless, delusions (a world of divisions, desires, frustrations) are inexhaustible. Only by freezing it into ice, taking all the life and change out, might one avoid that fact. But that would kill the universe, turn off the stove, empty the city, stop this amazing circus altogether!

We can try to fix things a little ... feed the hungry where we can, stop the violence where we can, end the wars where we can, cure the diseases where we can, but it will never be perfect. It is a Sisyphean task, as in the story of the fellow who keeps rolling a big stone up a mountain which then proceeds, again and again, to roll down and right over him. He then proceeds to try again, but the stone never arrives at a resting place at the top. We can make this world better (maybe much better, by doing things like ending wars, stopping pollution, curing cancer, and 1000 other achievements that I hope humankind someday attains), but there will always be rough edges, troubles, conflicts which cannot be resolved or which are newly appearing. Such is the nature of this world.

HOWEVER, what one can do is leap through all visions of this world of division and conflict, to the Flowing Wholeness which is the wonderful theatre which comes alive as this show happening! There is no death or birth, pieces, conflict and all the rest. There are no sentient beings simply because no separate pieces! No conflict because no separate pieces to conflict!

Then, as Mahayana Buddhists, we can go further ... to realizes that all the death and birth, pieces and conflict ARE the Flowing Wholeness (aka "Emptiness" of separate self existence") and the Flowing Wholeness is precisely the show of death and birth, pieces and conflict. We can realize this even as we try to feed the hungry, cure the diseases we can, end the wars we can, cleans the oceans as best we can.

That is the only way to "save sentient beings, transform all delusions, perceive reality and attain enlightenment" (which is "unattainable" because the Flowing Wholeness is not something that can be "reached" any more than sand needs to "attain" and reach the beach on which it sits ... which beach the sand exactly is, while the sand is precisely the beach!)

Sorry, if you are looking for some other lesson, you have come to the wrong place!

The above is Buddhism and Zen 101 ... and any magazine article or teacher which tries to say that the point of Buddhism is merely to fix this world is offering a band-aid to cure a heart attack! Rather, the lesson of the Heart Sutra is that we can leap past all sentient hearts and heart attacks, to the Flowing Wholeness which is the true Life Pulse of reality ... something Beautiful and Peaceful and Good (all caps) for its vibrant wholeness ... even as, here on earth, we try to eat better, go to the gym (Jundo exercises every day! ), love with our hearts and not hate, and maybe have our scientists invent artificial hearts (and even that is only going to postpone the inevitable).

We are still going to die someday but, fortunately, Buddhism does not believe in death!

Gassho, J

STLah

Now, THAT’S A LESSON! [emoji2309]

[emoji1374] Sat Today

[Tomás ESP]

What a fantastic set of responses. I deeply appreciate your sharing, wisdom and compassion. Thank you

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

[Meian]

Yes, this is one of they ways I think about this vow myself. My Dad was a Marine (during WWII) and so this idea was present in my life long before I found Buddhism.

Another way I think about this vow is that in saving all sentient beings, I need to include myself in the saving. The Dalai Lama said that having compassion for oneself is the basis for developing compassion for others. And so the Vow is also a commitment to practice diligently. To make sure I am putting the work in on myself so that I free myself from hindrances that would interfere with helping/saving others.

Thank you for sharing this, Shinshi. [emoji120]

Your story brings back fond memories of my father's time as a disaster/crisis response chaplain, and his stories of his time in the Civil Air Patrol in his younger years. Not the same as a Marine, but I always learn a lot from his stories.

The importance of self-care is a great reminder, and it's easy for me to forget, or think "I'll just do one more thing." I am working on this area. I will save your sharing as a gentle reminder.

Gassho2 stlh

[Kokuu]

Such a good question, Tomás, and the responses have pretty much covered everything!

One thing I might add is that the Bodhisattva Vow acknowledges how our practice moves from being self-centered in freeing ourselves from suffering, to taking account of the suffering of others, as we note that the suffering that we experience is universal in chasing after pleasure and trying to escape pain. Almost every single being is doing the same, and just as we wish to be free from this endless spiral, so we wish every other being freedom from the same thing.

When we first take the vow, it can seem quite heavy and theoretical in nature but at some point I think we move from thinking intellectually about it and just embody it, sitting with and for all beings, and all non-beings too. What other way could there be but to include everything?

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Jundo]

...
Another way I think about this vow is that in saving all sentient beings, I need to include myself in the saving. The Dalai Lama said that having compassion for oneself is the basis for developing compassion for others. And so the Vow is also a commitment to practice diligently. To make sure I am putting the work in on myself so that I free myself from hindrances that would interfere with helping/saving others.

I just came across some comments by a scholar which contrast Metta (Loving-Kindness) with Compassion in Buddhism, and also speak about the importance of including oneself (in both really):

[M]ettā is a term that can have various meanings such as friendship, goodwill, fellowship, harmony, non-aggression, and non-violence. This is described in the Suttanipāta and the Khuddaka-pātha: “May all beings be happy and secure; may they be inwardly happy!” ... In the Theravāda commentaries, “loving-kindness” is explained in contrast to “compassion” (karunā):

“In order to ‘make [sentient beings] happy’, the desire to bring [to one’s fellow man] that which is beneficial and good is loving-kindness.”

“‘Oh! Indeed, may [sentient beings] be free from suffering’; therefore, the desire to remove strife and sorrow [from fellow humans’ lives] is compassion.”

In the Mahayana, we might say that Compassion is the desire for others to have insight into Emptiness, and thus to be free of the basic existential suffering of "Dukkha," while Metta is more for their earthly and bodily health and happiness. I would say that it is essential for our Bodhisattva Vow to include both, namely the ultimate insight into "Emptiness" and "non-self/no sentient beings to save" that I describe above, AND ordinary peace, safety, happiness, contentment, health and well-being in this world.

As well, it is not wrong from one to wish Metta to oneself, but attitude matters:

Here we can see clearly that loving-kindness is “neighborly love” or “true love for others.” However, the Buddha teaches that in order to love others, you must love yourself first. In other words, while the Buddha acknowledges instinctive self-love, he teaches that in order to truly benefit oneself, one must not harm other beings. ... This kind of love for a neighbor or true love for others actually begins with attakāma or atta-piya, which means “self-love.” Self-love is often confused with selfishness, individualism, and narcissism, but in fact, it is extremely natural and not bad at all. If a human being does not have a loving heart, he cannot survive the harsh natural environment or face the fierce competition for survival. Rather, self-love enables survival, reproduction, and human cultural development. Thus, biologically and socially, self-love is essential. However, if your love turns to selfishness that simply loves only the self and does not care for others, it becomes a problem.
https://www.worldscientific.com/doi/...eself%20ablaze

If one is practicing only or even primarily for one's own peace, safety, happiness, contentment, health and well-being in this world, I would say that this is a form of selfishness that is at the root of its own suffering. However, if one is practicing for one's own peace, safety, happiness, contentment, health and well-being in this world as a basis to bring peace, safety, happiness, contentment, health and well-being to all sentient beings in this world, then one certainly may include oneself!

Gassho, J

STLah

Sorry to run long

[Risho]

Great thread thank you

gassho

risho
-stlah

[Shinshi]

Thank you for sharing this, Shinshi. [emoji120]

Your story brings back fond memories of my father's time as a disaster/crisis response chaplain, and his stories of his time in the Civil Air Patrol in his younger years. Not the same as a Marine, but I always learn a lot from his stories.

The importance of self-care is a great reminder, and it's easy for me to forget, or think "I'll just do one more thing." I am working on this area. I will save your sharing as a gentle reminder.

Gassho2 stlh

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Washin]

Amazing discussion! Thank you all

Gassho
Washin
stlah

[Zenkon]

To save all sentient beings, though beings numberless

I also see this as an admonition to focus on the journey, not the destination; to focus on today, now, rather than some distant goal.

Such powerful imagery in so few words.

Gassho

Zenkon
sat/lah

[Chikyou]

Samsara, this ordinary world in which we live, cannot be fixed. It will always be a messy, beautiful yet sometimes so very ugly, love but also conflict filled, good but also bad, life comes but then also sickness and death comes, fertile and creative jungle of ongoing change in which things are appearing, disappearing while struggling for survival in between. It will always be a mess that also produces wonderful and amazing things, like an old busy kitchen or noisy city, and maybe we can clean it up a bit and repair some things here and there, but then more mess appears and more broken things to fix.

Sorry, basic Buddhism 101 is that we cannot fix Samsara, only maybe tidy it up for awhile. Beings are numberless, delusions (a world of divisions, desires, frustrations) are inexhaustible. Only by freezing it into ice, taking all the life and change out, might one avoid that fact. But that would kill the universe, turn off the stove, empty the city, stop this amazing circus altogether!

We can try to fix things a little ... feed the hungry where we can, stop the violence where we can, end the wars where we can, cure the diseases where we can, but it will never be perfect. It is a Sisyphean task, as in the story of the fellow who keeps rolling a big stone up a mountain which then proceeds, again and again, to roll down and right over him. He then proceeds to try again, but the stone never arrives at a resting place at the top. We can make this world better (maybe much better, by doing things like ending wars, stopping pollution, curing cancer, and 1000 other achievements that I hope humankind someday attains), but there will always be rough edges, troubles, conflicts which cannot be resolved or which are newly appearing. Such is the nature of this world.

HOWEVER, what one can do is leap through all visions of this world of division and conflict, to the Flowing Wholeness which is the wonderful theatre which comes alive as this show happening! There is no death or birth, pieces, conflict and all the rest. There are no sentient beings simply because no separate pieces! No conflict because no separate pieces to conflict!

Then, as Mahayana Buddhists, we can go further ... to realize that all the death and birth, pieces and conflict ARE the Flowing Wholeness (aka "Emptiness" of separate self existence") and the Flowing Wholeness is precisely the show of death and birth, pieces and conflict. We can realize this even as we try to feed the hungry, cure the diseases we can, end the wars we can, cleans the oceans as best we can.

That is the only way to "save sentient beings, transform all delusions, perceive reality and attain enlightenment" (which is "unattainable" because the Flowing Wholeness is not something that can be "reached" any more than sand needs to "attain" and reach the beach on which it sits ... which beach the sand exactly is, while the sand is precisely the beach!)

Sorry, if you are looking for some other lesson, you have come to the wrong place!

The above is Buddhism and Zen 101 ... and any magazine article or teacher which tries to say that the point of Buddhism is merely to fix this world is offering a band-aid to cure a heart attack! Rather, the lesson of the Heart Sutra is that we can leap past all sentient hearts and heart attacks, to the Flowing Wholeness which is the true Life Pulse of reality ... something Beautiful and Peaceful and Good (all caps) for its vibrant wholeness ... even as, here on earth, we try to eat better, go to the gym (Jundo exercises every day! ), love with our hearts and not hate, and maybe have our scientists invent artificial hearts (and even that is only going to postpone the inevitable).

We are still going to die someday but, fortunately, Buddhism does not believe in death!

Gassho, J

STLah

Sorry to run long

Gassho,
SatToday

-Kelly