Nirvana

[Guest]

If there is no self, who is it that escapes samsara and enters Nirvana?

Gassho

John

SatTodayLAH

[Geika]

There is also no coming, no going... so no state to enter into that is not already here. No "self" required to do anything or go anywhere...

Gassho
Sat, lah

[Tom A.]

If there is no self, who is it that escapes samsara and enters Nirvana?

Gassho

John

SatTodayLAH

A priest will clarify because I have the same question, I would answer that self is the self that is everything. Not just that the self flows into everything but the self contains everything else, it’s a wholeness that contains good and everything bad and is felt when just sitting, it’s no self and it is the self, samsara is nirvana and it’s already here. But I’m not sure if that is 100% correct.

Gassho,

Sat


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[Rich]

The heart sutra explains it all.
Here’s some commentary by Thay

“The insight of prajñāpāramitā is the most liberating insight that helps us overcome all pairs of opposites such as birth and death, being and non-being, defilement and immaculacy, increasing and decreasing, subject and object, and so on, and helps us to get in touch with the true nature of no birth/no death, no being/no non-being etc... which is the true nature of all phenomena. This is a state of coolness, peace, and non-fear that can be experienced in this very life, in your own body and in your own five skandhas. It is nirvana. Just as the birds enjoy the sky, and the deer enjoy the meadow, so do the wise enjoy dwelling in nirvana. This is a very beautiful sentence in the Nirvana Chapter of the Chinese Dharmapada.”

Sat/lah


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[Jundo]

If there is no self, who is it that escapes samsara and enters Nirvana?

Gassho

John

SatTodayLAH

The Thich Nhat Nanh quote from Rich is lovely. I might phrase it as follows, less eloquently. Of course, our practice is to experience and live this, not merely to talk about it:

It is the belief in a "self" that is separated from all the rest of reality (and often in conflict with or feeling isolated from it) which is "samsara" and the source of our not feeling liberated. When this sense of separate "self" and division from the rest of reality is dropped, so is the conflict and one is liberated. No separate self, and no self/other divide, thus no friction possible.

That is not rocket science.

The tricky part is to then continue to live in a world of separate "self" and division, me and you, this and that, coming and going, birth and death, good and bad, while ALSO knowing and embodying the fact that there is ALSO a sense free of separate "self" and division, that is transcendent of me and you, this and that, coming and going, birth and death, good and bad. In other words, how to be "liberated" while still up to our necks in "samsara."

Gassho, J

STLah

[Suuko]

Building up on this week's topic, I'd add that when we give ourselves to the world, we soften our borders or drop the self. This is why we feel good when we give. We feel connected. That's perhaps a glimpse of Nirvana for you.

Gassho,
Sat,
Suuko.

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[Shinshi]

Jundo and the others have already said it better than I but I have been thinking about this overnight so I am just going to add the following. I like to go back to Jundo's analogy of the wave and the ocean. The wave has no independent existence separate from the ocean. And yet, when the topography of the ocean floor is right, and current is right, and the winds are right - the wave manifests and comes into existence. So it is completely true it has no independent existence, that doesn't mean the surfer can't ride it, nor does it mean it won't crash onto the beach.

When we come into existence, when conditions are right for us to manifest, just like the wave. And while we have no independent existence it doesn't mean we don't exist. And so in Zen we work on seeing this experience as it truly is.

I don't know if this helps, but it how I currently think about it.

-sorry for running long

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Guest]

Thank you Shinshi. What you shared is helpful. I think that sometimes this idea of no self can be confusing for sure. My humble understanding of this is that there is no-thing that exists in an of itself apart from everything else. The self is a reference system. I find that if I use the reference system in order to respond to conditions, then I can just do what needs to be done with no attachments (you know, like the good Buddhist vacuum cleaner). I find that as a human being that my mind does not give in so easily so then the self becomes a thing with all of its images and stories. When I remember, "oh that is just a story, a belief I got caught up in," then I can come back to the central point of shikantaza and just hit the bullseye of this moment in its fullness. I also remind myself that Dogen Zenji said to study the Buddha Way is to study the self and to study the self is to forget the self. I have to remember that he did not say there is no self. I look at this as a teaching that helps me get out of my own way and just be present. On one hand there is no this and that, but I still look both ways before crossing the street.
Gassho,

Wondo

Sat Today

[Shinshi]

Thank you Shinshi. What you shared is helpful. I think that sometimes this idea of no self can be confusing for sure. My humble understanding of this is that there is no-thing that exists in an of itself apart from everything else. The self is a reference system. I find that if I use the reference system in order to respond to conditions, then I can just do what needs to be done with no attachments (you know, like the good Buddhist vacuum cleaner). I find that as a human being that my mind does not give in so easily so then the self becomes a thing with all of its images and stories. When I remember, "oh that is just a story, a belief I got caught up in," then I can come back to the central point of shikantaza and just hit the bullseye of this moment in its fullness. I also remind myself that Dogen Zenji said to study the Buddha Way is to study the self and to study the self is to forget the self. I have to remember that he did not say there is no self. I look at this as a teaching that helps me get out of my own way and just be present. On one hand there is no this and that, but I still look both ways before crossing the street.
Gassho,

Wondo

Sat Today

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Tomás ESP]

There is no escaping and no entering, only change.

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

[Jundo]

... I think that sometimes this idea of no self can be confusing for sure. My humble understanding of this is that there is no-thing that exists in an of itself apart from everything else. The self is a reference system. I find that if I use the reference system in order to respond to conditions, then I can just do what needs to be done with no attachments (you know, like the good Buddhist vacuum cleaner). I find that as a human being that my mind does not give in so easily so then the self becomes a thing with all of its images and stories.

Hi Wondo,

I often encourage folks to leap through just an image that "no-self" means only that "no thing exists apart from everything else." Dogen and the great Zen and Mahayana teachers wanted us to realize that each thing is, in most intimate and identical sense, itself, all other things and each other in most radical meaning, and all things are each every thing. There is no "everything else," for there is no other "else." As well, all things fully contain and embody all things, no thing and each thing ... even as the whole and all things flow in, out and as each other. Your self -is- precisely this, that and the other thing while they are fully and completely your self too. It is a most radical vision and experience which redefines "self" as this flowing all.

As to attachments, I don't know if it is possible to function as a human being on a "day to day" basis with truly "no attachments." Some say that someone like the Buddha had no attachments whatsoever, but that may only be possible with a truly restricted life as a mendicant might live (and even then, it is tricky for the average monk!) With spouse, family, concerns for their well-being and the well-being of this whole planet, I think it hard for the average person to live with truly no attachments.

However, what this crazy-wise practice can allow us to do is experience what I would call "attachments without attachments," namely, knowing and experiencing the realm of flowing wholeness free of separation, where there are no attachments whatsoever WHILE ALSO, simultaneously, continuing to live in this world of "samsara" in which there remains separation and attachments. It is like seeing the world two ways at once, through two eyes which provide clarity when both are open together. Thus, there are attachments AND no attachments whatsoever AT ONCE, AS ONE. Our attachments are simultaneously perfumed by this knowing of freedom from all attachment.

Furthermore, we can cling lightly to the attachments which we continue to have in this life, not being their prisoner. It is like a flower that I might cherish and water when present, savor and enjoy, but also be willing to let go and to see fade when the winter comes. Something like that.

Gassho, J

STLah

Sorry to run long

[JohnS]

Thank you for this, teacher!

Gassho

John

SatTodayLAH

[Kakunen]

True self.

But you (we) need to practice in your experiences with your teacher.

If you read Genjo Koan,you can know information,but you can not understand only reading.

Sit sleep live work,and step by step,you will know a littile bit,about True self.

You need throw all experiences at past time.
Gassho
Sat today
LAH
Kakunen

[Tom A.]

Sit sleep live work…

Gassho

Tom

Sat


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