Guilt, Zazen, and the Precepts

[Tai Shi]

Guilt, Zazen, and the Precepts

With brain surgery comes the fear of death. My buddy Koysui assured me there is a Buddhist after death and memories count. Though I thought I was all alone in the operation I was not. Many of us were with me and I turned to my Tapatalk for reasons to get well. So many of you are and were with me. I cried to think you cared about me. Even dear novice priests were there. See what you think we are not alone.
Gassho
st/lah


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[Jundo]

I have been having an experience lately where I rise from Zazen in the morning in a certain positive state, then as the day proceeds at work, I find myself breaking Precepts right away. By the evening Zazen, I am struggling with feelings of guilt for breaking the Precepts during the day. Does Zazen eventually help keeping the Precepts easier?

Hmmm. Well, first, I would ask WHICH Precepts and HOW MUCH?

If you are sitting Zazen, then getting up, robbing and killing in hate, punching old ladies, pillaging in greed and bombing in anger, then there is a serious problem. It is very clear that we are to avoid such behavior, not much room for ambiguity. In that case, I would recommend therapy at minimum, but more likely turning yourself into the police and prison.

But if you are speaking about saying an angry oath when stubbing your toe, lusting after your neighbor's spouse a bit, being jealous or gossiping ... well, we are ideally to turn from such behavior ... and ideally to be free of anger, unhealthy desires, jealousy and gossip ... but Zen Buddhists do not expect to be robots, morality machines, perfect saints.

For our small daily transgressions, we try to catch ourselves, turn our emotions in more healthy ways, dust off, forgive ourselves but wish to do better, make amends if there is something we can do to fix things. But the next day, while we may do better, we might fall down again.

I think that we would be psychopaths if we did not feel some guilt, especially for the very very serious harms we do. We SHOULD feel guilty if, for example, we drink and drive and kill someone, or shoplift from a store or cheat on a test. It is the weight of our Karma. If it was years ago, we can learn that we all make serious mistakes, and forgive ourselves to great extent (especially if we have worked hard not to repeat the bad Karmic behavior, and to counterbalance it with much good Karma which makes this world better). But we should still feel regret for what was done.

On the other hand, if my failing was that I drank an extra glass of wine last night, or broke my diet, or got angry at some politician in the news ... well, not much to feel guilty about. Let it slide, forgive oneself, try to stick to the diet and not get angry next time.

Yes, Zazen helps by making us less reactive, less prone to excess desire, anger, divided thinking. Still, it does not make us robots.

Zazen is keeping the precepts. The rest of life is harder. Recite the verse of atonement and the four vows after zazen and be kinder to yourself. We all fail sometimes. That's part of the beauty of this earthly existence.

That is exactly right.

I think folks misunderstand this "Zazen is keeping the precepts" meaning:

It is that, in Zazen, there is the dropping of all duality, such that there is no longer a separate self to kill, no separate other to be killed, nothing to take for no separate hand to take it, thus nothing lacking, no violence possible to do! Thus, Dogen stated:

When we sit zazen, what precept is not observed, what merit is not actualized? (Zuimonki 1-2)

However, rising from the cushion, we return to a world of harm doing and victims, taking and things to take, toes to stub and tables to stub them ... so do our best. Yes, recite the Verse of Atonement and try to do better tomorrow.

Zazen isn't about keeping the precepts, why do you think it is? ... Reciting some vows? What's the point?

Zen and Zazen is about keeping the Precepts. Master Dogen taught Zenkai Ichinyo (禅戒一如) ... Zen and the Precepts are One! The vows are a time to reflect, a voiced promise to do better as we can ... for promises are important. We recite again and again for, as we are not machines, we make one mistake after another. Yes, we promise and try again to do better.

Sorry for committing the transgression of having run long.

Gassho, J

STLAH

[houst0n]

Zen and Zazen is about keeping the Precepts. Master Dogen taught Zenkai Ichinyo (禅戒一如) ... Zen and the Precepts are One! The vows are a time to reflect, a voiced promise to do better as we can ... for promises are important. We recite again and again for, as we are not machines, we make one mistake after another. Yes, we promise and try again to do better.

Could you say a little more about this please Jundo; it appears I have gone wrong somehow. I totally accept that while sitting in Zazen, the precepts are observed. How could they not be? But to me they're observed in much the same way in that while I am sitting zazen I'm not also, for instance, changing the oil on my car or listening to music (at least, music that's playing outside my head!).

My feeling is, that Precepts are much more involved with our actions while we are not sitting than while we are, and our main work of keeping them is largely happening off the cushion.


Is this a false view?

[houst0n]

Hey Neil

It sounds like you might be having a rough ride just now. In Zen we don't try not to feel all of those things and they are part of life, but I know from experience that too many days feeling alone and scared is no fun, and the idea of being free from suffering can feel like just some kind of unattainable made-up idea.

Thank you Kokuu, I am okay though

Another morning!

Gassho,
./sat
Neil

[Jundo]

Could you say a little more about this please Jundo; it appears I have gone wrong somehow. I totally accept that while sitting in Zazen, the precepts are observed. How could they not be? But to me they're observed in much the same way in that while I am sitting zazen I'm not also, for instance, changing the oil on my car or listening to music (at least, music that's playing outside my head!).

My feeling is, that Precepts are much more involved with our actions while we are not sitting than while we are, and our main work of keeping them is largely happening off the cushion.


Is this a false view?

While we are sitting, there is no car which lacks oil, no oil, nothing in need of changing. All is the Wholeness of the Whole with never lack.

While we are sitting, the Music of the Universe is playing with never a wrong key or missed beat (even the ones which sound hard on our ears).

So, it is more than just the fact that we are sitting still, not using our hands to hold a weapon or grab what we want to take. In fact, in sitting Zazen, the whole motion of the world is passing through us, beyond judgements of stillness or motion. The earth is turning, the whole planet is flying through space!

But, of course, when we get up from the cushion, the car needs fixing, the guitar needs tuning. The Precepts have a somewhat different meaning in daily life because there are people who can do violence and victims to do violence too. There are feelings of lack, desire and taking what may not be our right to take.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Jakuden]

It occurs to me also that sometimes the Precepts may be especially difficult to follow for some people due to issues they really need professional help with... this may be irrelevant to the original question, but in some cases, someone might need a therapist or psychiatrist (to deal with kleptomania, sexual issues, addiction... etc). Zazen is not a replacement for an AA meeting or other aids available to help heal psychological conditions. But it can lead to awareness that this help is needed, perhaps!

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/heading off to LAH

[Tomás ESP]

Many times behavior such as drinking, watching porn, playing games compulsively, etc. are cover-ups for emotions we do not wish to recognize and embrace, or sometimes trauma aswell. When one tries to abide by the precepts, we suddenly discover the emotions that were neglected in some ways (sometimes for years). I am in this process myself and I believe many practitioners come up with these neglected emotions at some point.

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

[Jundo]

Many times behavior such as drinking, watching porn, playing games compulsively, etc. are cover-ups for emotions we do not wish to recognize and embrace, or sometimes trauma aswell. When one tries to abide by the precepts, we suddenly discover the emotions that were neglected in some ways (sometimes for years). I am in this process myself and I believe many practitioners come up with these neglected emotions at some point.

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

[Prashanth]

Many times behavior such as drinking, watching porn, playing games compulsively, etc. are cover-ups for emotions we do not wish to recognize and embrace, or sometimes trauma aswell. When one tries to abide by the precepts, we suddenly discover the emotions that were neglected in some ways (sometimes for years). I am in this process myself and I believe many practitioners come up with these neglected emotions at some point.

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

Same here. Since the time I started sitting regularly, I am coming across a surge of suppressed emotions in me, sometimes those have been hidden for decades. However, I am trying to use the precepts to deal with those emotions. It's difficult, but every day is a new day to get on the bike and try learning to balance it without training wheels anymore.

Gassho.

Sat lah.

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