Egolessness (non-self)

[Guest]

In practicing zazen, how does one become aware of the interdependence of things and egolessness. This still eludes me.

Gassho

John

SatTodayLAH

[Suuko]

In practicing zazen, how does one become aware of the interdependence of things and egolessness. This still eludes me.

Gassho

John

SatTodayLAH

It's as if there's a fire which is extinguished. So as you drop everything that comes by accepting everything that comes, there's a point whereby there's nothing to drop.

Gassho,
Sat, Lah,
Suuko.

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[Rich]

Awareness is enough




Sat/lah


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[Kokuu]

Hi John

I very much like the two answers you have received and would say very much the same - be with what arises. There is no need to add anything extra.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Bion]

In practicing zazen, how does one become aware of the interdependence of things and egolessness. This still eludes me.

Gassho

John

SatTodayLAH

Practicing zazen has no need for that awareness nor is it the purpose of it. I dare say, if any understanding or realization of interdependence is to happen, it is a product of analytical thinking off the cushion and not something to pursue with sitting. When we sit, we just are and observe, so if we continue with that, realizations and understandings might occur naturally with time.

[emoji1374] Sat Today

[Bokugan]

Practicing zazen has no need for that awareness nor is it the purpose of it. I dare say, if any understanding or realization of interdependence is to happen, it is a product of analytical thinking off the cushion and not something to pursue with sitting. When we sit, we just are and observe, so if we continue with that, realizations and understandings might occur naturally with time.

[emoji1374] Sat Today

I have found this to be true in my practice. No noteworthy experiences or realizations during zazen, but life "off the cushion" is different, for the better, in small yet significant ways for me. In my experience, much of it comes down to gradual shifts in awareness and perception that could be seen as a budding understanding of interdependence; results of zazen practice.

Gassho,

Bokugan
SatToday LaH

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[Ilmari]

For me it comes in flashes during the day. I sometimes see, for example, a person doing something, and I may laugh quietly or tears may come to my eyes. Sense of shared humanness, timeless interdependence.

Gassho,

Ilmari

[Jundo]

In practicing zazen, how does one become aware of the interdependence of things and egolessness. This still eludes me.

Gassho

John

SatTodayLAH

In my experience, when sitting and dropping demands and wishes besides sitting itself, sitting for sittings sake ... dropping all measures beyond a trust in the completeness of Zazen ... the hard borders of "self" which separates it from (and creates friction with) the "not self" world start to soften. There is a greater sense of all things of the world flowing into and as all things of the world.

It is hard to express, but is not that different from a warm bath, in which bather and water and bathtub and all the world just are flowing in and out as each other. Or maybe a musician who merges with her instrument, the powerful music and the whole theatre!

Then, rising from the cushion, that can carry over into many moments of life when the "self/not self world" frictions return ... and yet, the warm bath and whole music also remains too.

I am going to recommend a book for you, as I think you may be of a rather philosophical bent. However, the book is so well expressed, that maybe it will give you "ah hah" moments on how everything is everything else and the whole thing! It is Dr. Cook's book on Hua Yen philosophy, which was so influential on Dogen and Zen in general. Give it a read AND keep on sitting Shikantaza. Of course, the point is not to understand this merely intellectually, but to really get the feeling ... (the difference between a recipe in a "Cook Book" and actually tasting the soup!)

Hua-Yen Buddhism
The Jewel Net of Indra
Francis H. Cook

Hua-yen is regarded as the highest form of Buddhism by most modern Japanese and Chinese scholars. This book is a description and analysis of the Chinese form of Buddhism called Hua-yen (or Hwa-yea), Flower Ornament, based largely on one of the more systematic treatises of its third patriarch. Hua-yen Buddhism strongly resembles Whitehead's process philosophy, and has strong implications for modern philosophy and religion. ... The Flower Ornament School was developed in China in the late 7th and early 8th centuries as an innovative interpretation of Indian Buddhist doctrines in the light of indigenous Chinese presuppositions, chiefly Taoist. Hua-yen is a cosmic ecology, which views all existence as an organic unity, so it has an obvious appeal to the modern individual, both students and layman.

https://www.psupress.org/books/titles/0-271-02190-X.html

Gassho, J

STLah

[houst0n]

In my experience, when sitting and dropping demands and wishes besides sitting itself, sitting for sittings sake ... dropping all measures beyond a trust in the completeness of Zazen ... the hard borders of "self" which separates it from (and creates friction with) the "not self" world start to soften. There is a greater sense of all things of the world flowing into and as all things of the world.

It is hard to express, but is not that different from a warm bath, in which bather and water and bathtub and all the world just are flowing in and out as each other. Of maybe a musician who merges with her instrument, the powerful music and the whole theatre!

Then, rising from the cushion, that can carry over into many moments of life when the "self/not self world" frictions return ... and yet, the warm bath and whole music also remains too.

I am going to recommend a book for you, as I think you may be of a rather philosophical bent. However, the book is so well expressed, that maybe it will give you "ah hah" moments on how everything is everything else and the whole thing! It is Dr. Cook's book on Hua Yen philosophy, which was so influential on Dogen and Zen in general. Give it a read AND keep on sitting Shikantaza. Of course, the point is not to understand this merely intellectually, but to really get the feeling ... (the difference between a recipe in a "Cook Book" and actually tasting the soup!)

https://www.psupress.org/books/titles/0-271-02190-X.html

Gassho, J

STLah

Not the intended recipient, but hadn’t heard of this one. Thanks to the magic of amazon a copy arrived today.

So, err. Cheers

Gassho,
./sat
Neil