Fishy invesigations

[Late]

Hi!

It seems that I am constantly searching for information to put my life right. The information does not help. I have anxiety and depression for not having the life I want.

Last evening I was frustrated, I took "Realizing Genjokoan" and started a familiar pattern of information seeking. I didn't read for long, because I found next sentence:

(12)Therefore, if there are fish that would swim or birds that would fly only after investigating the entire ocean or sky, they would find neither path nor place.

It came to my mind that maybe the lack of information is not really problem. Problem is that I am that fish investigating. So it would be time to stop searching knowledge for now and just sit, just eat something, just sleep and just go for a walk.
-I don't need information about walking? I need to go to walk, and IF I find difficulties and IF I cannot reason them myself, then it would be time to search externally.

What do you think? Does my thoughts make any sense? And asking that, am I seeking information of how to understand instead of just understanding not to seek information?

I feel dizzy...
Lauri
ST.LH.

[Anchi]

Hi Lauri,

Be like a bird swimming in the vast ocean ... the bird is not bothered by how many or how big the waves are; or if the ocean is flat and clear like a mirror. The bird just swims along and flows with each movement.

I hope this helps.

Sorry to run long.

Gassho

[Kokuu]

It came to my mind that maybe the lack of information is not really problem. Problem is that I am that fish investigating. So it would be time to stop searching knowledge for now and just sit, just eat something, just sleep and just go for a walk.
-I don't need information about walking? I need to go to walk, and IF I find difficulties and IF I cannot reason them myself, then it would be time to search externally.

Hi Lauri

I think that is wise thinking. Where you are now is perfect just as it is. The more we compare our life to some idealised version, the less happy we tend to be. As it says in Hsin Hsin Ming (Verses on Faith Mind):

The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences.
When love and hate are both absent, everything becomes clear and undisguised.
Make the smallest distinction, however,
and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart.

However, in addition I would say that the searching for information is also the expression of life just as it is. There is a time to just sit (or just walk, just cook etc) and a time to learn.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Bokugan]

Hi Lauri,

I like what Kokuu shared

There is a middle ground, for ex: In my interpretation, the fish and bird become more proficient swimmers and fliers the more they swim and fly. In a similar fashion, but unique to our species, I feel like taking time to learn can benefit our practice, yet when we practice that is all there is, nothing to understand, interpret, or know, and no prerequisites whatsoever. We go back to being like the bird and fish, swimming and flying and nothing more, but maybe finding a little more ease in doing so.

Gassho,

Bokugan
SatToday

[Ryumon]

Hi!

It seems that I am constantly searching for information to put my life right. The information does not help. I have anxiety and depression for not having the life I want.

Last evening I was frustrated, I took "Realizing Genjokoan" and started a familiar pattern of information seeking. I didn't read for long, because I found next sentence:



It came to my mind that maybe the lack of information is not really problem. Problem is that I am that fish investigating. So it would be time to stop searching knowledge for now and just sit, just eat something, just sleep and just go for a walk.
-I don't need information about walking? I need to go to walk, and IF I find difficulties and IF I cannot reason them myself, then it would be time to search externally.

What do you think? Does my thoughts make any sense? And asking that, am I seeking information of how to understand instead of just understanding not to seek information?

As Kokuu said, searching for information is life. It's how we position ourselves in the world. However, when you say "I have anxiety and depression for not having the life I want." that's the very definition of dukkah, suffering. Trying to fit the world to our desires causes conflict, instead we have to try to find the middle was to fit our lives to the world; not 100%, but as much as possible.

You might find this episode of The Zen of Everything to be pertinent to your questioning.

https://www.zen-of-everything.com/50

Gassho,

Ryūmon (Kirk)

sat

[Tomás ESP]

Hey there, another fish that feels like I do. Genjokoan is great, hope we can walk this walk together

Gassho, Tomás
Sat

[Risho]

This is a really good thread; thank you; it is the human condition; I take the 4 noble truths for granted, but it was a very significant articulation of the human condition. I go through a range of emotions each day; I think zazen has taught me not to believe them; that being said I often do hahahah

gassho

risho
-stlah

[Nengei]

Please excuse any unintended appearance that I am trying to teach or explain anything. I am preparing for ordination as a novice priest, and have no depth of knowledge or qualifications for teaching Zen.

I can identify with what it seems to me you are saying. For me, I have a long history of not wanting to be seen as not knowing what I am doing. I want to gain some expertise, then I can step out and do the thing--whatever that may be.

Many things in my life have taught me that the path to being informed is to do whatever the thing is. Sit Zazen. Participate in discussions. Get paint on the canvas. Run. There are always esoterica to learn, but there are no magic packets of data that are going to turn me into the person I aim to become. It is in the doing.

I beg your pardon for using so many words.

Gassho,
然芸 Nengei
Sat today. LAH.

[Juki]

"Cottleston Cottleston Cottleston Pie,
A fly can't bird, but a bird can fly.
Ask me a riddle and I reply
Cottleston Cottleston Cottleston Pie."

A.A. Milne

Which is to say that mostly I just sit, and let the mystery be.

Gassho
Juki
sat today and lah

[Late]

there are no magic packets of data that are going to turn me into the person I aim to become. It is in the doing.

Thank you. This is just what I meant. A sentence worthy to became my laptop backround

I can read everything I could find about zazen, but it is not sitting. I can read everything, say, about traditional japanese metalcrafts, but I am not getting that perfect knife done, if I don't actually go and forge that first. And second. And third...


Lauri
Sat Today, Lend a Hand

[Tairin]

"Cottleston Cottleston Cottleston Pie,
A fly can't bird, but a bird can fly.
Ask me a riddle and I reply
Cottleston Cottleston Cottleston Pie."

A.A. Milne

Which is to say that mostly I just sit, and let the mystery be.

Gassho
Juki
sat today and lah

Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Yamabushi]

Acquiring information through reading is to look at a map. The map is not the journey.
Experiencing the journey is the journey.
Some maps help enhance the experience of the journey.
Attach to neither.

A sesshine participant was exclaimed to Kobun, "I have experienced satori!" Kobun replied, "It is ok. It will go away."

Gassho,

-Jared
(Sat Today)

[John.3]

Wow this is a great thread. This is definitely something I relate to, I have a long history of feeling lack in my life and always being anxiety/depression ridden because I feel my life isn't what it ought to be.

I am slowly getting better about just letting go and then truly trusting I am ok, I'm doing enough, I am enough. I so easily get pulled into a sort of FOMO which makes me very unhappy, I think I ought to know more, do more , be more.

The truth for me is if I just accept things as they are I already am where I want to be and I am very grateful.

The subject of wanting to learn the perfect amount before doing really struck a chord with me, it shows me just how much fear of being imperfect/competent has held me back from trying.

Sorry to run long
Gassho,
Sat today

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

[Bokugan]

Many things in my life have taught me that the path to being informed is to do whatever the thing is. Sit Zazen. Participate in discussions. Get paint on the canvas. Run. There are always esoterica to learn, but there are no magic packets of data that are going to turn me into the person I aim to become. It is in the doing.

I know Lauri already quoted this, but I want to second that this is beautifully put. "It is in the doing."

Gassho,

Bokugan
SatToday LaH