Has single-pointed concetration i.e. object-based concentration a place in Soto-ZEN?

[Zrebna]

Hi!

I know that our formal practice Zazen (or also Kinhin) are non-objective "meditation-practices"
where single-pointed concentration has no place, as default.
But I just wonder what is the general stance of Soto-ZEN regarding this topic?

For instance it is oftentimes recommended to also "practice" informal "off the cushion"
when we do for instance day to day activities, such as washing the dishes -> "when you wash the dishes, just wash the dishes."
Might be here the mindful use of single-pointed concentration beneficial, where the range of objects are
the dish, one's hands, the activity and sensations (water over hands), for instance?
I think Shinzen Young oftentimes recommends single-point focus when doing "off the cushion" practice.
Another example where a more object-oriented focus seems to help me is when I am in the gym lifting within a set.
Keeping a narrow focus on the sensations of the targeted muscles, the (muscle)-pain, the posture, technique and breathing provides me with a better focus and "zoom in" than keeping a
broader "zen-like" awareness.
As oppsosed to the above mentioned a "zen-like" broader non-objective awareness seems to do a better job for me during set breaks.

So it seems that depending on the usecase there might be situations where an objective concentration is more practical than a non-objective one and vice versa.

However, after I had practiced (before joining Treeleaf) 2 years a samatha-vipassana based meditation with very rigid single-pointed-concentration based instructions on what to do with the mind/focus while practicing, I can also see the pitfalls with objective concentration:
First of all it felt very goal-oriented to me and also very "willpower-eating".
Another aspect is that it always seemed to me a bit like a crutch or like escaping the present situation like it really is by directing and redirecting over and over again your attention on your given meditation object - basically like cover or curtain one would put over what really is NOW.
In this sense it always seemed a bit "unreal" to me.

However, there might be usecases where single-point concentration is helpful and maybe even needed and I wonder in genral, what role it does play within the tradition of Soto-ZEN at all, if any?

Thanks for reading and curious to find out more about this topic

Gassho
Chris
Sat today

[Jundo]

Hi Chris,

First, we are not particularly seeking to attain deep concentration states, deep jhana (I actually believe that Shikantaza is closer to what is known as Sutta Jhana, rather than the highly concentrated Visuddhimagga form) or the like. Our emphasis is radical equanimity and non-gaining which sometimes may be samadhi, sometimes something else.

So, we may have an object or place to rest the attention, such as the breath, posture, palms of the hand in Mudra or the like, but we do so very lightly. We are not seeking to intently hold the object. Likewise if sitting in "open awareness."

Now, off the cushion, one can experiment with many things, such as you describe washing dishes or lifting weights. Do as you wish. However, for it to be Shikantaza, one would simply wash with great equanimity, just washing, forgetting past or future and even "clean vs. dirty." Hold the moment lightly. It is not so intense. Likewise, when I go to the gym, I do not "zoom in" on anything, and just lift without gaining idea if I want to do so Shikantaza style.

At other times, I don't worry about Zen or Buddhism, and I am like any other husband trying to get the messy dishes done before bed, and I am any other guy in the gym just trying to get through sets and lose a couple of pounds.

Sorry to run long.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Zrebna]

Hi

Hi Chris,

First, we are not particularly seeking to attain deep concentration states, deep jhana (I actually believe that Shikantaza is closer to what is known as Sutta Jhana, rather than the highly concentrated Visuddhimagga form) or the like. Our emphasis is radical equanimity and non-gaining which sometimes may be samadhi, sometimes something else.

I have not much understanding yet, but intuitively I got to say that I agree wholeheartedly.
Jhanas how they are partially aimed for in Theravada, seem to be just another experience. In this case even somehow
artificially brought by and from a certain viewpoint regarding the mindset (in my opinion) not so far away from when someone
takes some psychedellics to "experience" something - it just does not feel right ot better said it just does not feel real to me and also
just like another bucket point one is striving to attain (there are even different stages/levels of Jhanas, as you likely know already) - something our human brain anways wants to do all the time i.e. striving for...attaining...striving for something else again...attaining...and so on...

So, we may have an object or place to rest the attention, such as the breath, posture, palms of the hand in Mudra or the like, but we do so very lightly. We are not seeking to intently hold the object. Likewise if sitting in "open awareness."

Ok, so one might have (temporarily) a sort of range of objects to focus on, but the focus would be not super rigid and more soft - is this what you mean?


Now, off the cushion, one can experiment with many things, such as you describe washing dishes or lifting weights. Do as you wish. However, for it to be Shikantaza, one would simply wash with great equanimity, just washing, forgetting past or future and even "clean vs. dirty." Hold the moment lightly. It is not so intense. Likewise, when I go to the gym, I do not "zoom in" on anything, and just lift without gaining idea if I want to do so Shikantaza style.


At other times, I don't worry about Zen or Buddhism, and I am like any other husband trying to get the messy dishes done before bed, and I am any other guy in the gym just trying to get through sets and lose a couple of pounds.

I get this, meaning of course I also allow myself to live my life most of the time as a normal human in terms of not thinking about Zen, informal practice, buddhism at all...for example when I am studying, working or also when I am working out in the Gym.
Just sometimes I might like to experiment with some things and do briefly a kind of informal practice when you want to call it like that.
And here I wonder how to at best do it in a Soto-Zen context, when one would like to do it at all.
I sense that basically there is room for concentration, but it is not the goal to make it super intense at any cost and maybe keeping a slight broader focus is better - like even in my example in my opening post when doing a set in the gym: Even there I jave not single point of focus but several things where I let my attention wander kind of softly, but on the other side I also would not let myself drag away too much by something totally unrelated like thinking in the midst of a set what I will eat later at home...if that makes sense.

Sorry to run long.

Gassho, J

STLah

Alright, thanks a lot for answering
I realize that my question is quite vague to begin with - I guess I just wanted to get some idea on how the aspect concentration is viewed in the context and tradition of Soto-Zen.
Also maybe how the 8th point of the noble eightfold path i.e. 'right concentration' is view in Soto-Zen.
By the way, is the noble eightfold path of importance in the Soto-Zen school or rather not so much?

Also sorry for running long.

edit:
Will such topics be also discussed either in the 'sit along'-series at some point or do you maybe also discuss it in your book 'The Zen Master's Dance' that I gifted myself for Christmas a few days ago D:
I just think that some context on how certain buddhist points are seen (sometimes differently compared to older traditions) in Soto-Zen and why are quite interesting, at least for me

Gassho
Chris
Sat today

[Kokuu]

By the way, is the noble eightfold path of importance in the Soto-Zen school or rather not so much?

Hi Chris

In Mahayana Buddhism, the eightfold path tends to be presented in terms of ethics, meditation and wisdom, which includes all of the eight. Right Concentration would be approaching Zazen in the right way.

Concentration is not something we either aim for in Sōtō Zen or try to avoid. We sit Shikantaza to sit with whatever is going on at the time, whether we have good concentration or poor concentration. Often concentration will improve through sitting but it is not something we are aiming for. Sitting is just sitting. Anything else is adding unnecessary extras.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Jundo]

Hi




Alright, thanks a lot for answering
I realize that my question is quite vague to begin with - I guess I just wanted to get some idea on how the aspect concentration is viewed in the context and tradition of Soto-Zen.
Also maybe how the 8th point of the noble eightfold path i.e. 'right concentration' is view in Soto-Zen.
By the way, is the noble eightfold path of importance in the Soto-Zen school or rather not so much?

Also sorry for running long.

edit:
Will such topics be also discussed either in the 'sit along'-series at some point or do you maybe also discuss it in your book 'The Zen Master's Dance' that I gifted myself for Christmas a few days ago D:
I just think that some context on how certain buddhist points are seen (sometimes differently compared to older traditions) in Soto-Zen and why are quite interesting, at least for me

Gassho
Chris
Sat today

Hi Chris,

In Chinese-Japanese, the 8th spoke of the Eightfold Path is 正定, which does not necessarily translate into "Right Concentration." The Chinese character 定 means "to settle, to stabilize, to put in order," but not really "to concentrate." It can have that meaning, or samadhi, or just meditation.

http://hanzidb.org/character/%E5%AE%9A

Here is a talk series on the Eightfold Path ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?64-Buddha-Basics

Gassho, J

STLah

[Zrebna]

@Kokuu: Thanks a lot for your input on this one

Also thanks Jundo for the info what the 8th aspect would roughly mean in Chinese-Japanese - I like this translation actually a lot.
And nice one on the "Buddha-Basics"-Series here on Treeleaf - I will make sure to also work my way through this one

Gassho
Chris
Sat today

[Rich]

If you are totally lost in some dream or delusion that’s wrong concentration but if you wake up - boom - that’s right concentration. Which is open spacious awareness of just this just now

Sat/lah


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hokin]

Hi Chris,

In Chinese-Japanese, the 8th spoke of the Eightfold Path is 正定, which does not necessarily translate into "Right Concentration." The Chinese character 定 means "to settle, to stabilize, to put in order," but not really "to concentrate." It can have that meaning, or samadhi, or just meditation.

http://hanzidb.org/character/%E5%AE%9A

Here is a talk series on the Eightfold Path ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?64-Buddha-Basics

Gassho, J

STLah

This makes perfect sense, Jundo...In fact also the original word in the pali suttas that westerners have commonly translated to "concentration" is " samadhi", which in fact doesn't really translates to that...We could very well translate it to something like "awakenness" or also "whole awareness" or else "non- dualistic perception"or many other much better and less misleading ways than "concentration", a term that, not only to me, suggests some 'object perceived by a subject'-like practice, with way too much not being taken in by a somewhat more whole-embrace-like awareness in the here and now....'samadhi' resembles very much more one open limitless blue sky that can verily be invaded by whatever kind and quantity of clouds, regardless, being this sky-with-clouds-&-all imperturbably blue anyways...'concentration' feels very much something like the subject wants to keep the blue of the sky completely spotless and whatever cloud passes by is being intently avoided and possibly annihilated, at least sensorily speaking, so that only one-side of reality is accepted, while the other is being avoided and actually, at least subconsciously, despised...sounds preety much like one hell of a good amount of dukha is perpetrated, ain't it?
I hope I have made my point clear, aware as I am that my english is somewhat elementary...sorry for that.
Also sorry if I have written too much. I'll try be more concise next time.

Gassho.
Hokin.
SAT&LAH.

[Jundo]

This makes perfect sense, Jundo...In fact also the original word in the pali suttas that westerners have commonly translated to "concentration" is " samadhi", which in fact doesn't really translates to that...We could very well translate it to something like "awakenness" or also "whole awareness" or else "non- dualistic perception"or many other much better and less misleading ways than "concentration", a term that, not only to me, suggests some 'object perceived by a subject'-like practice, with way too much not being taken in by a somewhat more whole-embrace-like awareness in the here and now....'samadhi' resembles very much more one open limitless blue sky that can verily be invaded by whatever kind and quantity of clouds, regardless, being this sky-with-clouds-&-all imperturbably blue anyways...'concentration' feels very much something like the subject wants to keep the blue of the sky completely spotless and whatever cloud passes by is being intently avoided and possibly annihilated, at least sensorily speaking, so that only one-side of reality is accepted, while the other is being avoided and actually, at least subconsciously, despised...sounds preety much like one hell of a good amount of dukha is perpetrated, ain't it?
I hope I have made my point clear, aware as I am that my english is somewhat elementary...sorry for that.
Also sorry if I have written too much. I'll try be more concise next time.

Gassho.
Hokin.
SAT&LAH.

Thank you!

This is in keeping with my understanding of how the much later Visuddhimagga commentary, now so influential in Theravada Buddhism, changed the original meaning of Jhana into a practice of deep concentration states.

First, I recently read an interesting comment by Dr. Bronkhorst (in his paper "Karma," although I he goes into more detail on this in some of his other writings). He speaks about how the additional Jhana that emphasize rather other-worldly and extreme states, after the first 4, are something that snuck back in to meditation practice in later periods:

Probably the most important among these non-authentic elements are certain meditational states that are sometimes rejected but elsewhere presented as essential elements on the path to enlightenment. Most of the canonical passages (presumably the authentic ones) mention four meditational states, called dhyana in Sanskrit, jhana in Pali. Other texts add a number of further states that are never called dhyana/jhana but carry altogether different names. Among these additional states, often five in number, we find the ‘realm of nothingness’ and the ‘realm of neither ideation nor nonideation’. The series culminates in the ‘cessation of ideation and feeling’. These names reveal that the emphasis in these additional states, unlike the states called dhyana/jhana, is on the suppression of thoughts and other mental activities. This aim — the suppression of all mental activities — has its place in the more general aim to suppress all activities whatsoever, an aim that we have come to associate with the Jainas and perhaps other non-Buddhist ascetic movement of Greater Magadha.

Unlike the dhyanas/jhanas, they do not lead to a higher goal (such as the destruction of the taints), and we may be sure that these meditational states, too, found their way into the Buddhist canon from outside and cannot be looked upon as authentic teachings of the Buddha. With only one exception known to me, they are indeed never mentioned in accounts of the Buddha’s enlightenment. On the other hand, they have found a place in the story of the Buddha’s death: the Buddha is supposed to have passed through the four dhyanas and the five additional states before he finally expired in the fourth dhyana.

I also post from time to time on the difference between Sutta jhanas (as found described in the Suttas themselves, and Visuddhimagga reinterpretations of these, and how Shikantaza happens to echo very closely with the simple equanimity and dropping bliss states of the "4th Jhana" of the Suttas (which, as Bronkhorst states, is actually the highest Jhana of enlightenment in traditional Buddhism). I will report below, pardon the length:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

... you might be interested in the history and examination of Jhana and samadhi by Richard Shankman. He makes the argument that the Fourth Jhana, originally the highest, is actually a putting aside of blissful and highly concentrated states in favor of equanimious sitting with a sense of wholeness, at least as described in the Suttas before the Vishudimagga and other commentaries (that were influenced by Bhraman/Hindu practices which the Buddha originally may have rejected) turned the meaning of Jhana to some kinds of deeply concentrated and blissful, even other worldly states:

"Just Sitting" Shikantaza which we practice at Treeleaf is placed in historical context perhaps closer to the intent of the older Pali Suttas for "open, spacious, aware samadhi which thus brings insight" than other later forms.

Richard Shankman--a teacher in the insight meditation tradition and the author of the recently released book The Experience of Samadhi--joins us to discuss the various teachings and approaches to what in the Theravada tradition is called samadhi or concentration meditation.

During this episode Richard shares some of his personal background with samadhi practice and also explains two different forms of deep samadhi, called jhana in the Theravada tradition--one from the time of the Buddha as captured by the Pali Suttas and another which arouse hundreds of years later and which is captured in the authoritative text, the Visuddhimagga. Listen in to find out about these different forms of deep concentration and absorption, which are a hallmark of the Theravada tradition of Buddhism...

...

Discussion with insight meditation teacher and author, Richard Shankman. In this episode we continue to dissect the different kinds of samadhi and their respective fruits--what in the Theravada tradition are called jhana (or "meditative absorption"). According to Shankman there are two ways of approaching the attainment of jhana, one as was taught in the original canonical texts of the Theravada, the Pali Suttas, and the other from the later commentaries on the Buddha's teachings, the Vishudimagga. As a result we get two different forms of jhana--one called Sutta jhana and the other called Vishudimagga jhana. This two-fold understanding, though geeky, shines light on the different methods of practicing both samadhi and vipassana meditation and offers a unitary model for understanding the two together.

His book:

https://books.google.co.jp/books/about/The_Experience_of_Samadhi.html?id=lQ_ZzFgJ1AwC&source=kp_book_description&redir_esc=y

Interview 1

https://art19.com/shows/buddhist-geeks/episodes/941e9aa6-b270-4f52-a55e-dbf132e13cce

Interview 2

https://art19.com/shows/buddhist-gee...d-611262bfad41

[The Visuddhimagga is a highly influential centuries' old commentary in Theravada Buddhism that, Shankman asserts, gave many practices a very different direction from the Suttas]. The Fourth Jhana in the Pali Suttas was considered the 'summit' of Jhana practice (as the higher "otherworldly" Jhanas, No. 5 to 8, were not encouraged as a kind of 'dead end') and appears to manifest (quoting the sutta descriptions in the book) "an abandoning of pleasure, pain, attractions/aversions, a dropping of both joy and grief", a dropping away of both rapture and bliss states, resulting in a "purity of mindfulness" and "equanimity". Combine this with the fact that, more than a "one pointed mind absorbed into a particular object", there is a "unification of mind" (described as a broader awareness around the object of meditation ... whereby the "mind itself becomes collected and unmoving, but not the objects of awareness, as mindfulness becomes lucid, effortless and unbroken" (See, for examples. pages 82-83 here))

http://books.google.co.jp/books?id=lQ_ZzFgJ1AwC&lpg=PP1&ots=Nfh_Zax84P&dq=richard%20skankman&pg=PA80#v=onepage&q&f=false

A bit of the discussion of the highest (in Buddhist Practice) "Fourth Jhana", and its emphasis on equanimity while present amid circumstances (and a dropping of bliss states), can be found on page 49 at the above link.

This is very close to a description of Shikantaza, for example, as dropping all aversions and attractions, finding unification of mind, collected and unmoving, effortless and unbroken, in/as/through/not removed from the life, circumstances, complexities which surround us and are us, sitting still with what is just as it is.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Zrebna]

This makes perfect sense, Jundo...In fact also the original word in the pali suttas that westerners have commonly translated to "concentration" is " samadhi", which in fact doesn't really translates to that...We could very well translate it to something like "awakenness" or also "whole awareness" or else "non- dualistic perception"or many other much better and less misleading ways than "concentration", a term that, not only to me, suggests some 'object perceived by a subject'-like practice, with way too much not being taken in by a somewhat more whole-embrace-like awareness in the here and now....'samadhi' resembles very much more one open limitless blue sky that can verily be invaded by whatever kind and quantity of clouds, regardless, being this sky-with-clouds-&-all imperturbably blue anyways...'concentration' feels very much something like the subject wants to keep the blue of the sky completely spotless and whatever cloud passes by is being intently avoided and possibly annihilated, at least sensorily speaking, so that only one-side of reality is accepted, while the other is being avoided and actually, at least subconsciously, despised...sounds preety much like one hell of a good amount of dukha is perpetrated, ain't it?
I hope I have made my point clear, aware as I am that my english is somewhat elementary...sorry for that.
Also sorry if I have written too much. I'll try be more concise next time.

Gassho.
Hokin.
SAT&LAH.

You have described my feeling about Jhanas how they are partially taught in Theravada, but way nicer and easier to understand - thanks for this

Also thanks for you input Rich, as well as thanks Jundo for all the detailed information about how differently Jhanas are viewed - I for myself intuitively strongly tend to think that indeed Shikantaza is way closer to the Buddha's teachings since nothing is avoided or manipulated - it just feels more real and in fact seems to be similar to how the 4th and actually final Jhana is described.

Anyways, interesting stuff

Gassho
Chris
Sat today

[Hokin]

Thank you!

This is in keeping with my understanding of how the much later Visuddhimagga commentary, now so influential in Theravada Buddhism, changed the original meaning of Jhana into a practice of deep concentration states.

First, I recently read an interesting comment by Dr. Bronkhorst (in his paper "Karma," although I he goes into more detail on this in some of his other writings). He speaks about how the additional Jhana that emphasize rather other-worldly and extreme states, after the first 4, are something that snuck back in to meditation practice in later periods:



I also post from time to time on the difference between Sutta jhanas (as found described in the Suttas themselves, and Visuddhimagga reinterpretations of these, and how Shikantaza happens to echo very closely with the simple equanimity and dropping bliss states of the "4th Jhana" of the Suttas (which, as Bronkhorst states, is actually the highest Jhana of enlightenment in traditional Buddhism). I will report below, pardon the length:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

... you might be interested in the history and examination of Jhana and samadhi by Richard Shankman. He makes the argument that the Fourth Jhana, originally the highest, is actually a putting aside of blissful and highly concentrated states in favor of equanimious sitting with a sense of wholeness, at least as described in the Suttas before the Vishudimagga and other commentaries (that were influenced by Bhraman/Hindu practices which the Buddha originally may have rejected) turned the meaning of Jhana to some kinds of deeply concentrated and blissful, even other worldly states:

"Just Sitting" Shikantaza which we practice at Treeleaf is placed in historical context perhaps closer to the intent of the older Pali Suttas for "open, spacious, aware samadhi which thus brings insight" than other later forms.






Gassho, J

STLah

I totally agree...There sure is a somewhat dilution of the original Buddha's meditation instructions mixed with hinduist taste that certainly doesn't fit in there...attainments whatsoever and psychic powers too...(whaaaat?!?)

Regarding Dr. Bronkhorst statements, well, that's beautifully said...I also highly recomend, to whomsoever might be interested in learning from the original suttas, to check out Venerable Bhante Vimalaramsi at Dammasukha (https://www.dhammasukha.org/)...he has resucitated the Suttavadin branch, old school of the Theravada tradition and, seems to me, does a beautiful and useful job explaining, at the same time that he simplifies, the jhanas and meditation as a whole following just the instructions given in the suttas that, as you, Dr. Bronkhorst and Richard Shankman point out, where much simpler but more fruitful nonetheless, at least when and if some really buddhist attainment (I'd rather call it 'non-attainment-attainment') is concerned.

And...about Richard Shankman analysis...Yes...that's exacty so. 'Other worldly states' is what hindu yogins in general are always concerned about not the Buddha who gave us a more down to earth practice and experience...also, these same 'other worldly states' are actually sometimes described by Budhha himself, in the suttas, as more dukkha...so, why even bother?

You said: "Just Sitting" Shikantaza which we practice at Treeleaf is placed in historical context perhaps closer to the intent of the older Pali Suttas for "open, spacious, aware samadhi which thus brings insight" than other later forms.
And I totally agree! That's why I admire, among other teachers as well, the work that Vimalaramsi is doing...because I find that, through studying the suttas the way Vimalaramsi suggests, could help place Shikantaza in that 'historical context' where it actually belongs, so that Shikantaza should be unanimously reckoned with being the authentic door to the ceasing of dukkha, for that is the way Buddha originally went to realization and therefore taught.

I recommend reading this sutta where the Buddha explains biographically his search for enlightenment while at the same time elucidates somewhat about the differences between a strenuously hard and goal-oriented practice and one relaxed, down-to-earth, goalless practice...interesting indeed: https://suttacentral.net/mn26/en/bodhi

Thank you Jundo for all these interesting parallelisms...

Gassho.
Hokin.
SAT.

[Hokin]

You have described my feeling about Jhanas how they are partially taught in Theravada, but way nicer and easier to understand - thanks for this

Also thanks for you input Rich, as well as thanks Jundo for all the detailed information about how differently Jhanas are viewed - I for myself intuitively strongly tend to think that indeed Shikantaza is way closer to the Buddha's teachings since nothing is avoided or manipulated - it just feels more real and in fact seems to be similar to how the 4th and actually final Jhana is described.

Anyways, interesting stuff

Gassho
Chris
Sat today

Gassho.
Hokin.
SAT.

[Jundo]

Regarding Dr. Bronkhorst statements, well, that's beautifully said...I also highly recomend, to whomsoever might be interested in learning from the original suttas, to check out Venerable Bhante Vimalaramsi

Based on this short talk, I do see the clear commonality. He does still seem to be speaking of reaching the various stages of the 5 through 9 higher Jhanas, followed by Nirvana, but perhaps is putting some more down to earth meaning on those too.

https://youtu.be/TMoiFfZDi4Y

Total side note:

Did the Buddha really invent the word ”Samadhi?” I have to check out the claim. I have never heard that before, and I am not finding much backing for that claim. The following is based on nothing more then Wiki-Roshi: "Rhys Davis, about a 100 years ago, stated that Maitri Upanishad is the earliest Sanskrit literary usage of the term 'samadhi', a word also found in early texts of Buddhism." But, scholars dispute the time of the Maitri Upanishad which may be actually from around or after the time of the Buddhist Canon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitrayaniya_Upanishad

Gassho, J

STLah

[Zenkon]

The OP asks "...

what is the general stance of Soto-ZEN regarding this topic (single point concentration))?

.

I did this type of meditation in my past Tibetan training. Basically, rather than let random thoughts come and go, the practitioner focuses intently one a particular topic or concept. The objective is to gain a deeper understanding or insight into the topic. This week, in our Precept forum, we are discussing Anger. One of our readings recommends that we look deeply at our anger to better understand our anger, and why it arises. I find single-point concentration meditation very useful for something like this.

Hope this helps.

Gassho

Dick

sat/lah

[Jundo]

The OP asks "....

I did this type of meditation in my past Tibetan training. Basically, rather than let random thoughts come and go, the practitioner focuses intently one a particular topic or concept. The objective is to gain a deeper understanding or insight into the topic. This week, in our Precept forum, we are discussing Anger. One of our readings recommends that we look deeply at our anger to better understand our anger, and why it arises. I find single-point concentration meditation very useful for something like this.

Hope this helps.

Gassho

Dick

sat/lah

That sounds different from what we have all been talking about, which is the practice of of inducing deep concentration states through focus on an object. I am not familiar with the practice you describe, Dick, what do the Tibetans call it? It sounds somewhat like a cross between Rinzai Koan phrase introspection and an Insight practice.

Gassho, J

STLah