Anger

[Guest]

I know our practice isn't about achieving anything, but I am very disappointed in myself. Over the last couple of days, events transpired which set off extreme anger within me, such as I haven't had in a while. I've been practicing zazen for about a year, and was hopeful I would have had more control by now. Days like this make me feel my Zen practice is futile.

Sorry for going long

Gassho

John
SatToday

[Bion]

I know our practice isn't about achieving anything, but I am very disappointed in myself. Over the last couple of days, events transpired which set off extreme anger within me, such as I haven't had in a while. I've been practicing zazen for about a year, and was hopeful I would have had more control by now. Days like this make me feel my Zen practice is futile.

Sorry for going long

Gassho

John
SatToday

John, we practice buddhism so as to achieve a lot though everything to be achieved is manifested perfectly in zazen. We do, however, want to live honestly and that takes effort and dedication and learning. Just be kind to yourself when not being perfect while trying your best to do better next time. I believe it’s what we all do… just keeping on. [emoji3526] [emoji1374]


Sorry for the extra lines
Sat Today lah

[Tomás ESP]

Sorry to hear this John, sending support your way. Remember nobody is perfect, we all have things to work on. Even though we practice just sitting, that doesn't mean one should drop all goals in daily life. Being present with how you feel, sharing it with the community and accepting what happened is already a big first step to treat yourself and others more kindly and deal with anger in a more constructive way. A complementary practice that has helped me in dealing with anger is cultivating loving-kindness for myself and others.

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

[Anchi]

Sorry to hear this John ...I understand what you mean.

I know from my own experience we can’t practice zazen without having emotions.

So, when it comes to anger, we will all feel anger.
When someone does something that we don’t like we can become angry.
This is ok and not something again that we push away or cling onto.
Zen folks should not get angry...???
This is unrealistic and not healthy at all. That being said, like ALL emotions, we first need to recognize how we are feeling.

Peace comes from understanding yourself ...
l focus on how l feeling the way you are feeling and why.? Recognize, accept, and then l move from there. It takes time and effort ...
l know ...I know it is not easy, but it does pay off in the end, so it's worth the hard work.

Be patient.
Patience and acceptance.
Try only to live each moment without judgement, and therefore craving or repulsion, try to stay centred in the NOW with HEART.
There is no other way....
Knowledge can help practice, but practice is practice, knowledge is knowledge.
You know enough. Simply practice Or at least what you know right now.


I hope this helps......

Be gentle and kind with your shadow side.


Sorry for running a bit long......

Gasshô

[Tai Shi]

Anger

Zen practice is not failing when I simmer and steam at people. We practice metta. I try to be over with my emotions. There’s no point. I am as I am, me and no one else. I accept today that I make atonement my Zen practice, too. Forgiveness like metta.
Gassho
sat/lah


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[Amelia]

Just knowing you would like to have acted differently shows that you are already making progress! Be gentle with yourself: these things take time. We all have days when emotion can overwhelm us and seemingly throw our practice out the window, but like in zazen we notice that we have wandered off and come back to the cushion.

Gassho
Sat, lah

[Shinshi]

I know our practice isn't about achieving anything, but I am very disappointed in myself. Over the last couple of days, events transpired which set off extreme anger within me, such as I haven't had in a while. I've been practicing zazen for about a year, and was hopeful I would have had more control by now. Days like this make me feel my Zen practice is futile.

Sorry for going long

Gassho

John
SatToday

Be easy on yourself. Here are some thoughts just in case they help.

Anger is my nemesis, here is what I think I have learned so far about the anger that arises in my life.

When conditions are sufficient, things arise. When the atmospheric conditions are right it might rain on your outdoor birthday party. And when it does you might get mad - or you might just say "Oh Well - lets go inside". So lately the necessary conditions have been met and you have gotten angry. That happens, just like it rains. The conditions that produce anger might be myriad. How you were raised, how you brain is wired. Who knows. But it is highly likely you will get angry in the future.

So the conditions were sufficient and you got angry - what happens next? I think that it might be that the following happens. One thing to remember is that suffering tends to arise when reality is different than your imaginary idea as to reality should be. It sounds like your imaginary idea is that somehow sitting will free you from anger. Man I wish that was true! Anyway, you get angry but you think that sitting should make you immune from anger (an idea about how the world should be) and so you suffer. And because you suffer you think there is no point to sitting. And you are upset with yourself for being angry, because you shouldn't be angry (an idea about how the world should be). But these are all ideas you have in your head. They are not reality. The reality is that you are angry. Try not to layer the other mental processing - the evaluating (the should be etc.) - on top!

So what to do. Well, here is what I do. I note to myself that I am angry. Now this is a bit tricky because for me because I have a long history of tossing gasoline on the fire that is my anger. I am really good at it. So I have to really try to stop that from happening. Otherwise off I go adding more fuel to the flame. Coming up with a ton more things to be angry about. I read a long time ago some teachings from Thich Nhah Hanh on anger and he said that when he gets angry he says: "Hello Anger, my old friend". I often try this. My variant is: "Hey buddy, back again I see".

Then what I try to do is breath and stay calm, and ask myself what are the conditions in my life that have produced this anger. And often there are a ton. It isn't just the triggering event, often a lot of other things enter into it like if I am hungry, or did I get enough sleep, or is work really stressing me out. You get the idea. I try to look deeply and see where the anger comes from.

And I try my very best to let the fire burn out when it is a little flame rather than a raging inferno.

And though when we sit we don't sit to attain anything, I find that as I spend more time on the cushion I am better able to engage in the process and look deeply at my anger and what is producing it. I am better able to let it burn itself out and subside. I feel I am better at looking deeply with a quiet mind and look to see where I can try to change the conditions that contribute to my anger.

Anger will probably be my friend the rest of my life. He has been around a long time. But I can continue to use anger as a way of understanding myself and finding ways to handle it better and be a better person.

Don't know if that helps.

-Sorry to be long.

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Jundo]

I know our practice isn't about achieving anything, but I am very disappointed in myself. Over the last couple of days, events transpired which set off extreme anger within me, such as I haven't had in a while. I've been practicing zazen for about a year, and was hopeful I would have had more control by now. Days like this make me feel my Zen practice is futile.

Sorry for going long

So many wise comments from the folks above!

If one reads Shobogenzo, I think that even Dogen had days on which he got up on the wrong side of the bed and got angry. I have seen lots of old Roshi get ticked off sometimes. I think that even the Buddha had his bad Buddha days. Anger is like fire, and it is best to keep it from burning out of control, but it is wired into the most primitive animal parts of the brain. There is a difference between (1) getting a little angry (2) getting irate (3) speaking angry words (4) hitting somebody. I think it is not so serious if one avoids (3) and (4), and tries to stay close to (1).

My usual recommendation is just to breathe breathe breathe until the fire settles down. Repeat and repeat and repeat until it passes. Try to recall the place of equanimity known in Zazen.

I have even heard TNH and the Dalai Lama say that they even have angry moments, and they write books about it!

Gassho, J

STLah

[Nengyoku]

I recently listened to a Zen Studies Podcast episode about anger in Buddhism (episode 138). She relates how anger is used compassionately in Buddhist mythology.

She has a quote from the Dalai Lama:

There are two types of anger. One type arises out of compassion; that kind of anger is useful. Anger that is motivated by compassion or a desire to correct social injustice, and does not seek to harm the other person, is a good anger that is worth having… Anger brings more energy, more determination, more forceful action to correct injustice…

If we act when our inner motivation is hatred toward another person, then that hatred expressed as anger will lead to destructive action. This is negative action. But if we act out of consideration for the other person, if we are motivated by affection and sympathy, then we can act out of anger because we are concerned for that person’s well-being.

She says at one point

How do we actually tap into and awaken and allow this kind of fierceness and compassionate anger but not have it turn poisonous, not have it start centering on ourselves, not have it start centering on other people anger and hatred toward other people, but toward ignorance and actions?

I think these quotes show a clear distinction can be drawn between anger and hatred. I think hatred is easier to cling too, and anger blows away in the wind. I think it's easy to conflate the two. So don't beat yourself up so much, try to recognize wen your anger is directed at a person, and try to recognize when you're holding onto anger and letting it fester into hatred.

Sorry to run long.

Gassho,
William
SatLah

[Jundo]

You may be interested in this old thread, which relates anger to fire ... it can be a source of "righteous indignation" that spurs someone like MLK or Gandhi to act, very different from actual anger ...

Playing With Fire

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?8266-Playing-With-Fire

Our upcoming Precept reflection in the coming days will be the Precept on Avoiding Anger. I would suggest that you participate in that discussion as well, John.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Tai Shi]

The biggest thing in the past 10 yrs has been my brain surgery. But not to her. The center of her life is our adult child. They are for me. Makes for steady friction, I suggest counseling. She says no. She has the car keys.
Gassho
sat/ lah


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[Tai Shi]

So put a happy face on it. Love will do anything. Even brain surgery. I am submitting and as liberated man this is as it should be for them. Not anger.
Gassho
sat/ lah


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[Juki]

I recall a passage from "The Mind of Clover" where Aitken Roshi says something to the effect of "fundamentally, there is no anger, and nothing to be angry with." I always interpreted that as there being no anger and nothing to be angry with due to the interconnectedness of everyone and everything (so, we are really angry with ourselves or some aspect of ourselves that we see in another person). So I try to be gentle with myself and hope that gentleness rubs off elsewhere.

Gassho,
Juki

sat today and lah

[Jundo]

I recall a passage from "The Mind of Clover" where Aitken Roshi says something to the effect of "fundamentally, there is no anger, and nothing to be angry with." I always interpreted that as there being no anger and nothing to be angry with due to the interconnectedness of everyone and everything (so, we are really angry with ourselves or some aspect of ourselves that we see in another person). So I try to be gentle with myself and hope that gentleness rubs off elsewhere.

Gassho,
Juki

sat today and lah

And Aitken was a guy with a heck of a temper, especially when it came to injustice, from what I hear ... but he turned it in good ways ...



Gassho, J

stlah

[Guest]

Anger is part of human being… so it’s part of our practice too.
Maybe this podcast talk from Koun Franz could be helpful : THZ 208 - The Intoxication of Anger (Ninth Precept).

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/zen-nova-scotia/id1252855301?l=fr&i=1000521909145

Gassho,

Yuki (雪)
(Sat today)