Returning to Zen and the 12 steps.

[Liang]

Hi!
I've been gone for a few years, studying all sorts of religious-spiritual stuff.
But for all my study and practices, I had an addiction and it didn't address the underlying issues.
I'm in AA now and having others in recovery has been helpful in ways nothing else has.
Zen was the closest thing other than AA that did help.
So I'm thinking about start over with Zazen and mindfulness.
Has anyone else experienced starting over? Any advice?

Thanks,
Fred/Liang

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[Kokuu]

Has anyone else experienced starting over? Any advice?

Hi Fred

We start over every day. Regardless of what has gone before, each 24 hours presents a new set of choices to be made.

As I understand AA and related recovery groups, this is definitely true with each moment being one in which you deliberately decide not to engage your addiction.

The most important thing here is getting your butt to the cushion at least once a day and each time is fresh and new. Regardless of how long we have been practicing, that is the same for everyone here, every day we choose to practice. We don't get a badge saying 'sat for one day' or 'sat for thirty years' (although Insight Timer can do that for you if you want). On each occasion we just sit with what is here and now. Whether this is our first sit or ten thousanth, we are doing the same thing - you, me, Jundo, and everyone else choosing to sit Shikantaza - starting over on that cushion.

Sorry for running long.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Nengyoku]

Hello Fred,

It helps me at times to not look at things as starting over.
In zen we are merely returning to ourselves - a self that is waiting regardless of how long it takes us to return.
Each moment you sit is connected to the next, while also being its own moment entirely.

It is sort of like holding the door for someone, except you're holding the door for yourself. The door has been open this whole time, and it took you exactly as long to get there as you needed.

Sorry to run long.

Gassho
William
SatToday

[bakera3312]

Hello Fred,

Much Metta to you. I dont have any advice, but Thank you for joining us



Tony,

[Liang]

Thank you all for the excellent advice and the warm welcome back.
Kokuu - fantastic perspective. I hope it's okay that I shared this response with several folks in our online AA group and they loved it too. Meditation and spirituality is a frequent topic there.
William - that's really thought provoking. Who I am, exactly who I am opening the door for is a real mystery. So much of who I am is changing right now. I do feel like it's part waiting/opening the door for the new/original me. I didn't think about that. Something to chew on, thanks.
Tony-
Meta is the best thing you all can give!!!! I am so freaking overwhelmed with the amount of support and people in life already who have come forward to help me. Then add ontop of that all the people online thru AA or otherwise. Wow. Before starting recovery I felt depressed and lonely and in a rut with the daily grind trying to take care of everyone else. I felt like no one cared or if they cared they weren't available. Now, I see how wrong I was!
I don't think that insight is off topic, I'm sure it relates to metta and our effort to aid all sentient beings. Something like we are more connected and more loved that we realize. I feel like there is a dharma talk in there somewhere. But point is, metta, that loving kindness is so critical. I won't recover without it without it I'm a hopeless alcoholic/addict (as AA says). So a deep thank you and I will keep you in metta meditations.

Gassho, Fred


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[Shoki]

Hi Fred,
Apologies in advance for running over with the words but; I personally can't address addiction issues but I sat zazen regularly for about nine years then because of some other reasons and issues, I completely quit all zen practice for about 14 years. (14 years!). Then when I found Treeleaf, I just started again. It's no big thing, just make a commitment, sit down and do it. I start over every time I sit on the zafu in the morning. I start over with each breath. Those 14 years I was out of practice don't really have any detrimental effect right now.

Gassho
STlah
Shoki

[aprapti]

hi Fred,

what helped me was a lesson i learned in AA, but in fact is is very buddhist too (imho ) : every morning i said to myself: today i will not drink. Tomorrow i will see again, but today i will not drink..

good luck, pall.



aprapti

sat

[Shonin]

Hi,Fred. I hope your recovery is going well. Im sure it can be very difficult at times. I just wanted to say that there ARE books on the market for Buddhists in recovery. I believe one of them is "12 Step Dharma". I knew someone in your situation( I believe he was NA not AA) who told me part of the program is that they like you to be involved in some form of religion/spiritual path. He didn't have any form of faith but found the book to be fascinating which led him to be curious about Buddhism.
Dave _/\_
SAT/LAH

[Tai Shi]

I Gave up Ethel alcohol in 1987, tobacco in 2001, abuse of credit cards in 2019, prescription Oxycodone in 2020. Each addiction brought destructions. Ending them took a conscious decision. I had no set religious practice in mind. 12 steps require no church, or formal religion. Literature says one is helpful. I an UU, Soto Zen, and formerly Christian. None of this matters. When one works the steps, one surrenders to something bigger. For me, my decisions were not based on God, or gods, or Buddha. A decision to quite abuse came because Circumstances made me willing. I quit then the steps.
Gassho
sat/ lah

[serenewolf]

Congrats on facing your issues and getting help. You will probably find other aspects of your life improve as wwell in unexpected ways because of this choice. It will also benefit others around you and those you care about.
Gassho
David
Sat

[Rich]

As they say “turn your will and your life over to your higher power”. Just sitting allows that to happen.

🧘*♂️🙏💜

[Angel]

Has anyone else experienced starting over? Any advice?

Yes. Maybe.

I realize that this post is a couple of months old but wanted to offer my PM box if I can be helpful. I celebrated seven years clean and sober before relapsing. That relapse lasted seven years as well. About thirty minutes ago, I went over nine-hundred-thirty-one million sober seconds (10,775 days).

Angel - sat

[Tai Shi]

Returning to Zen and the 12 steps.

How do I agree with Rich I do.!



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[Rich]

He who hands to himself a joy/ Does the winged life destroy./ But he who kisses the joy as iy flies/ Lives in eternity's sun rise.

Nice

Sat/lah

[Meian]

I offer the following resources not as someone who has experience with substance addiction or abuse, but as someone who spent many years in that environment and the consequences of that environment. The reason I am offering these resources, is that the first place most people think of in 12-step recovery is AA and Al-Anon, but that is not all there is.

For any who are not aware, there is also Refuge Recovery, and Recovery Dharma. Both are Buddhist and secular.

I would explain the differences as I see them (between Refuge Recovery and Recovery Dharma), but I don't represent anyone, and I am no expert in this. I have participated sometimes in Refuge Recovery as an alternative to Al-Anon/ACA groups, due to my own personal conflicts with "higher power" concepts. I cannot recall if I have ever participated in Recovery Dharma, or if I have just read the book, and maybe tried some of the meditations.

Regardless, I feel that both methods are aligned with Soto Zen / Treeleaf. I have never felt any conflict in this.

Offering this information for any that may find it useful. Please correct if there is anything incorrect here.

, meian st lh