Respecting different beliefs? Even in ghosts?

[vanbui]

Hi Jundo/Sangha,

I have a question about respecting different beliefs. I appreciate the notion of different strokes for different folks and different ways up the same mountain. However, my wife, mother-in-law, and her best friends (etc...)are big believers in ghosts, spirits, demons, gods, and superstition. A friend of my wife recently slept at another friend's place and said there were lots of spirits in her house and she needed to do a special ritual. As a man of science, I think this is utter rubbish, but sadly, my wife did believe this story. I try not to get myself involved in their discussions, but it's actually quite challenging if it's your wife. Every so often, I'll try to nudge my wife to ignore the superstition and live in the present moment. I would explain that in zazen, we don't try to find the answers to metaphysical questions, but we lose the questions entirely. The Way is actually simple if there is no picking or choosing. She does not find these answers helpful.

How do you skillfully deal with this situation? Do you ignore them and not engage unless they ask you? I actually find this very difficult to deal with. Perhaps, I'm just very stubborn.

Gassho,
Van
SAT+LAH

[Meian]

My family is multi-faith. In my family, we have atheist, pantheist/Buddhist, Catholic, Lutheran, Muslim, and so on. Sometimes there is tension, but this tends to happen if one person is putting their beliefs on others, or assuming that others must agree with them.

Usually, we each just pursue our own interests and activities -- sometimes a few of us together. We try to take a "live and let live" approach to life, religion, etc., and it is mostly peaceful.

If it were my situation -- if the situation were reversed -- I'd have a talk with my partner, explaining that I don't share their beliefs in this area, and the subject makes me uncomfortable. I'd also ask the purpose of their telling me the stories. Do they want help? Are they scared? Do they just need to talk but no help? What is my role in this? Since I find most social cues and interactions confusing, I ask questions to know what is expected of me, and how to fulfill my role.

This is how I would approach an uncomfortable situation like this. This is just me, however.

Sorry to run very long.

Gassho, meian st lh

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Bion]

Respecting different beliefs? Even in ghosts?

Hi Jundo/Sangha,

I have a question about respecting different beliefs. I appreciate the notion of different strokes for different folks and different ways up the same mountain. However, my wife, mother-in-law, and her best friends (etc...)are big believers in ghosts, spirits, demons, gods, and superstition. A friend of my wife recently slept at another friend's place and said there were lots of spirits in her house and she needed to do a special ritual. As a man of science, I think this is utter rubbish, but sadly, my wife did believe this story. I try not to get myself involved in their discussions, but it's actually quite challenging if it's your wife. Every so often, I'll try to nudge my wife to ignore the superstition and live in the present moment. I would explain that in zazen, we don't try to find the answers to metaphysical questions, but we lose the questions entirely. The Way is actually simple if there is no picking or choosing. She does not find these answers helpful.

How do you skillfully deal with this situation? Do you ignore them and not engage unless they ask you? I actually find this very difficult to deal with. Perhaps, I'm just very stubborn.

Gassho,
Van
SAT+LAH

Here’s my humble opinion on the matter: the approach should always be compassion. Their beliefs, whether based on truth or absolute mumbo jumbo, are very much real to them, so they experience real torment or joy because of them. Dismissing those beliefs mindlessly means dismissing them as people. Most of the time their beliefs don’t affect anyone so, why be bothered by them, regardless of how we feel about their authenticity? Unless specifically asked to do so, why express an opinion that might cause someone else sadness or anger?
Tolerance, compassion and kindness towards those who believe differently than we do open many more gates to real communication than criticism or mockery ever could.
The Buddha way is that of compassion for all beings. Most of the time we should focus more on why it troubles us what others believe. It is also helpful to remember that someone else out there in the world feels exactly the same about our buddhist or even scientific beliefs.

I apologize for once again rambling more than Needed.

[emoji1374] SatToday

[Seikan]

What Bion said.

Just to add a personal perspective (aren't all perspectives personal?), until someone can prove to me that ghosts do NOT exist (as opposed to the other way around), then I feel that I should remain open to the possibility of their existence, even if I have never experienced one myself.

As a wiser sage once said when faced with the differing/varying opinions of others, "Maybe so".

Gassho,
Seikan

-stlah-

[Jundo]

Hi Van,

I am also a rather skeptical fellow about such things, believing that the explanations are usually psychological, in the heart and such. But, when I encounter such situations, I may say so, but also add "well, I don't personally believe, but who knows, it may be so, there are many things about the world that we cannot fully explain."

I think everyone above is speaking wisdom. Sometimes, if it is family, I just smile and go along with beliefs. It might be so, who knows, as Seikan says. If their beliefs are really oppressive (e.g., trying to convert you constantly), that is a different situation. But if it is just small things and events now and then, just smile and play along.

I do not know if the ghosts will haunt you, but if you are not an obedient son-in-law, maybe your living mother-in-law will "haunt" you! So, keep her happy.

Sorry to run long.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Ryumon]

My problem with these beliefs is that they are a slippery slope. It starts with angels and ends up with people thinking that Democrats are drinking the blood of children beneath a pizzeria in DC. Each time you let people run with crazy ideas it empowers them to find even crazier ones.

Gassho,

Ryūmon

sat

[vanbui]

Hi,

Thank you for all the great advice - there is real wisdom in here. After some reflection, I actually feel somewhat embarrassed for my reaction and feelings to other people beliefs.

Meian - thank you for your advice. In the future, I will delicately ask my wife those questions and perhaps learn to live with each other beliefs.

Bion - Your advice on compassion and tolerance is full of wisdom and skillfulness. I concur with your sentiments completely. I need to cultivate compassion and a good dose of wisdom! Much gassho.

Seikan - Interesting perspective. I actually don't dismiss the possibility of there being ghosts or gods. You can never know, so why speculate? Thank you for sharing the saying from the wise sage.

Jundo - thank you for your practical advice. I like your comment that there are many things about the world that we cannot fully explain, sp perhaps in the future I'll just smile and keep quiet. As an Asian male, I have been brought up to respect my elders, so I don't dare to challenge my mother-in-law! Plus, I think it is futile as she has strong beliefs in her superstition.

Much Gassho
Van
SAT+LAH

[Ryumon]

BTW, I just saw this today, which points out that white evangelicals in the US are more likely to believe Qanon and other conspiracy theories.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/07/27/what-drives-belief-in-conspiracy-theories-a-lack-of-religion-or-too-much

Paywall, but you can see the chart and the lede.

The conclusion of the article:

"On average, more devout Christians tend to be more credulous when it comes to conspiracies."

Gassho,

Ryūmon

sat

[Jundo]

BTW, I just saw this today, which points out that white evangelicals in the US are more likely to believe Qanon and other conspiracy theories.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/07/27/what-drives-belief-in-conspiracy-theories-a-lack-of-religion-or-too-much

Paywall, but you can see the chart and the lede.

The conclusion of the article:

"On average, more devout Christians tend to be more credulous when it comes to conspiracies."

Gassho,

Ryūmon

sat

Believe me, Buddhists are no less ... and probably more ... likely to have very strong belief in ghosts and possessions. Soto Zen Buddhism became influential in Japan, not for teaching Zazen, but for perfoming exorcisms in Samurai times. Even now, many Zen, Chan and other Buddhists have intense belief in ghosts. One example is this ... the famous Chan Master Sheng Yen ...

https://youtu.be/IkJVvtDIOA8

The Dalai Lama says he does not believe in "ghosts," but if you listen, he makes a very find distinction from "invisible spirits" that he does believe in ...

https://youtu.be/bFzLezveLZM

Gassho, J

STLah

[Shoki]

Growing up, my family identified as Roman Catholics. I say "identified" because as first generation, American born people from European peasant, immigrants, their Catholicism was a mixture of Catholicism, spirts, statue worship, spells, hexes, superstition and all sorts of nonsense including the dreaded malocchio! (evil eye).

As soon as I was old enough to think for myself I dismissed this but figured as long as they're not pushing it on me or roasting puppies, people can believe whatever they want. Trying to change people's minds is about the same as them trying to change yours.

Gassho
ST-lah
Shoki

[Kyōsen]

I have watched my mind dismiss things that were happening right in front of me, and I've watched it completely accept things as true that were flimsy at best. How can I trust this mind to discern what's true and what's untrue, what beliefs are valid and which are invalid? Of course there are practical limits: I'm probably not going to join every religion "just in case", but when it comes to others' beliefs I'm not really interested in accepting or rejecting them (generally speaking). I'm doing my own thing and that's largely where my attention is focused. Other people will do their own thing regardless of my approval, so why waste my energy?

Gassho,
Kyōsen
Sat|LaH

[Stewart]

I have similar issues with my Japanese husband and in-laws - very strong belief in all aspects of the supernatural.

They know that I'm not that bothered about such stuff and there is no point in talking to me about it. I will listen to what advice the latest psychic has told them to do or not do and I only express opinions if I think the advice could be harmful and I ask them to consider that. One example was a claimed curse on one branch of the family which was psychically discerned to have been caused by the ex-husband's anger at having been divorced when alive. The psychic recommended that he perform a wedding ceremony between the ex wife and her dead ex husband to make him happy. This involved her wearing her wedding dress during a type of seance. When these details came out I was questioning about how this made the woman feel etc.

In a nutshell, leave alone unless it might cause harm.

Stewart
Sat

[Ippo]

Hey Van,

I apologize if this has been said on the thread already but here are my two cents worth:

I often approach this as a practice in itself. Our ego-mind separates, distinguishes, classifies, labels, vilifies, blames, separates etc. So, adopting the 'Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind approach' I make a conscious effort to observe any aversion or uncomfortable, judgmental feelings that start to manifest when listening to people I disagree with.

To that end, I very quickly recognize that it has nothing to do with them and everything to do with ME. MY idea of the world, MY ideas, MY presuppositions. And at the end of the day, if YOU (or the other) do not fit into MY mold of the world then you are separate.

Ahhhhhhhh how delusional of me, 'I' am the only one creating the arbitrary separateness to begin with...... this is a really joyous realization that can help us move in the world way better. From there is Great Mind all the way.

Once there, I listen with my HEART with Empathy and compassion and they become my teacher, my brother, sister, etc. and we are SO much more the same than different.

I have actively practice this for years and learned to see past the ideas into the person. Then, intimacy and understanding is born. I think we have to practice this off and on the Zafu! Of course, still a work in progress.

That's just my thoughts brother, take it with a grain of salt

Gassho,

Ippo

SatLah

[Nobodyhere]

One example is this ... the famous Chan Master Sheng Yen ...



The Dalai Lama says he does not believe in "ghosts," but if you listen, he makes a very find distinction from "invisible spirits" that he does believe in ...



Gassho, J

STLah

This was so fun to watch and shows that one can be a great teacher even if you don't personally fully embrace their views. The wisdom, charm and value of these men is immeasurable for me. I utterly love Master Sheng Yen. Thanks for the share, it made my day.

Gassho,
Silviu
SatToday

[Byrne]

A good friend of mine once gave me incredible advice. If you want to get your point across you need to 1) know your audience and 2) only use words they understand.

science can't get the point across if the audience lacks the vocabulary and perspective to understand what's being explained, even if the science is correct. likewise, many people who consider themselves rational and scientific often get confused by religious and mythical language that appears to conflict with the limits of a rational worldview. some superstitious beliefs may be harmful. but sometimes they are fulfilling a function to get a point across. listen deeply and learn to separate what is trivial and what is essential. we all believe things that aren't true. sometimes our mistakes will be revealed to us in this lifetime. sometimes we take our errors to the grave. this applies to ALL OF US, no matter how smart we think we are.

if it gets the point across and isn't harmful, go beyond the words being spoken and get to the root of what is actually being said. do we want to be correct or do we want to get the message across?

gassho

sat today