Split Thread: Is a Buddha Beyond All Breaking Points? No ... but YES!

[JimInBC]

Thank you so much for taking the time to talk this through with me, Jundo. Gassho2

I understand the position now. I am still left with an emotional response - I was raised Christian, and Christianity has a history of dismissing or belittlingb (or far worse!) the beliefs of other religions. So I have a viscerally negative response to a religious belief of a religion I don't practice being called "absurd" or a "superstition". (I'm fine with those conversations about the religion I'm practicing, because I think it is important that people can challenge their own views.) And I'm fine that I have that reaction. We all bring reactions like that with us.

Your discourse on subjectivity/objectivity and the painting was beautiful. A koan that I hope you include in your next book. Thank you. Gassho2

Gassho, Jim
ST/LaH



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[Jundo]

Thank you so much for taking the time to talk this through with me, Jundo. Gassho2

I understand the position now. I am still left with an emotional response - I was raised Christian, and Christianity has a history of dismissing or belittlingb (or far worse!) the beliefs of other religions. So I have a viscerally negative response to a religious belief of a religion I don't practice being called "absurd" or a "superstition". (I'm fine with those conversations about the religion I'm practicing, because I think it is important that people can challenge their own views.) And I'm fine that I have that reaction. We all bring reactions like that with us.

I understand, and I fully cherish and honor the right of anyone to believe any peaceful and non-violent (important) belief that infringes on nobody else. In an imagined extreme case, if someone wishes to set up an Altar and put Snoopy on it, and believe that beagle shaped UFO aliens built the Pyramids, it is their right, no skin off of anybody's nose. I would never say to them that their belief is absurd. This is especially true if the Snoopy Pyramid people do not aggressively seek to impose their belief on me or others. In such case, more power to them! One man's Snoopy is another man's Sacred Savior.

But in the age of anti-vaxxers and 'Q', "fake news" and pseudo-science, snake oil and cults (e.g., Scientology and the hundreds of like cults here in Japan) ...

https://www.nytimes.com/article/happy-science-japan-coronavirus-cure.html?

... I think it is fine for some of us to say that, personally, we believe and conclude that some beliefs are either absurd based on what we understand now about the laws of physics and limits of biology or, if not, demand some special evidence beyond mere faith and "I heard it from a guy who read it in a book." It is my counter to all the Buddhists who (truly at least twice a month) tell me that I am --not-- a Buddhist because I don't believe in certain things or am agnostic about them, most especially, my open mind skepticism about more literal and detailed claims concerning post-mortem rebirth. When they say that to me I bow, offer thanks, but then I calmly and softly say too that I find that their belief is hard to swallow for me.

I also speak in this way for the folks who are, like me, seeking a refuge from Snoopy and the Pyramids, but are being told in various places that they MUST believe in Snoopy and the Pyramids or they are not practicing right, or worse, will be reborn in Peanuts Hell. I am saying that they are welcome here where, despite their more skeptical attitudes, they can practice Buddhism safely and fruitfully. Furthermore, anyone who wishes to honor Snoopy can find plenty of groups around that do just that, and we wish them well.

I am afraid that I am not the first Buddhist to speak in such tones. From India to Burma, Tibet to Tokyo to Taiwan, Buddhist teachers have very forcefully spoken out through the centuries when they believe that somebody else's version of Buddhism is incorrect. They claim that X or Y belief is heresy. I will do not so. Instead, I will simply note that, for some of us, certain beliefs seem personally absurd or demand further proof. For others, those same beliefs are cherished beliefs, and we celebrate their right to believe so.

Sorry to run long.

Gassho, Jundo
STlah

PS - Even the book which you pointed me too (Bhikkhu Analayo's book, which I am just in the early reading of) seems to have its own blind spots in a very, very subtle way, and may actually be stereotyping others too (I will have more to say about that when done, and perhaps my early impression is mistaken. Stay tuned. I might be completely wrong based on only an early chapter.)