Detaching from ego and becoming a hermit in the woods

[John.3]

Hello everyone [emoji120], sorry for going a little long here.

I am curious about the process of detaching from ego (I, me, mine). How does one let their ego go and what replaces it?

I have a chattering mind that states "if there is no more ego, no more analytical/critical 'I' than there is no more me."

Until finding zen a few short months ago I always took great pride in my mind, but I have come to realize it can be extreamly exhausting and is often just an endless hamster wheel that doesn't lead to good places. I am slowly realizing that there is a me beyond my chattering mind.

I also have this (irrational? ) fear that if I do detach from my ego or old self, I will end up becoming a hermit in the woods, that I will somehow lose myself and my typical way of relating to my loved ones and perhaps even my lifestyle as I know it. As an example, some of my aspirations I have had in my life for a long time suddenly seem trivial and maybe things I don't actually care about. Zen has shaken things up a bit since I have started practicing.

Anyone's experience and insight on this topic would be greatly appreciated! [emoji4]

Gassho,
John
Sat today

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[Jishin]

Hi John,

Show me your ego.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

[Jundo]

Hello everyone [emoji120], sorry for going a little long here.

I am curious about the process of detaching from ego (I, me, mine). How does one let their ego go and what replaces it?

I have a chattering mind that states "if there is no more ego, no more analytical/critical 'I' than there is no more me."

Until finding zen a few short months ago I always took great pride in my mind, but I have come to realize it can be extreamly exhausting and is often just an endless hamster wheel that doesn't lead to good places. I am slowly realizing that there is a me beyond my chattering mind.

I also have this (irrational? ) fear that if I do detach from my ego or old self, I will end up becoming a hermit in the woods, that I will somehow lose myself and my typical way of relating to my loved ones and perhaps even my lifestyle as I know it. As an example, some of my aspirations I have had in my life for a long time suddenly seem trivial and maybe things I don't actually care about. Zen has shaken things up a bit since I have started practicing.

Anyone's experience and insight on this topic would be greatly appreciated! [emoji4]

Gassho,
John
Sat today

One needs an ego to live. Sometimes I read some guru or cult leader who claims to be "beyond all ego," or to not have had a single thought in many years (that Byron Katie I wrote about yesterday actually claims so), I feel it is hogwash.

What we can be is not so attached to our ego, to the push and pull of our desires and drives, excesses and runaway destructive thoughts and emotions, so that our thoughts are moderate, balanced, like an ox well tamed. Or, a hamster well tamed.

We can also learn to see through our ego, and experience a reality free of an individual ego, a separate sense of self, and all the frictions and fears which a separate self creates between its ears when it bumps into the other seeming separate selves of the world, or fears for its own non-existence. The result is not nihilistic nothing, but a wholeness, fullness and flowing that sweeps in and through all separate things.

In fact, we can do all this at once, as one, as if encountering the world through two eyes which, both open, give perspective and clarity: A moderated self AND no self at once, each infusing and perfuming the other.

However, we need a self so long as we are human beings, and not trees or rocks.

Sorry to run long in my words.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

PS - The Buddha and Dogen both got a lot done in their lives, building organizations, creating teachings, moving and shaking. They did a heck of a lot for folks without "thoughts and egos"

[Inshin]

Nothing to Pacify

The second ancestral great teacher [Dazu Huike] asked the first
ancestor [Bodhidharma], “My mind is not yet calm. Would the teacher
pacify it?”
The [first] ancestor said, “Bring your mind, and I will pacify you.”
[Dazu Huike] said, “Seeking my mind I cannot grasp it.”
The [first] ancestor said, “I have finished pacifying your mind.”

When all is totally clear, nothing need be cleared.
Where all is hidden and dark, is utter confusion.
Seeking a teacher by the side of the path,
he accidentally met himself.
Enticed by calm water, he walked a bit in the clouds.

From Eihei Koroku

[Bion]

What is “me” or “you”, but the sum of everything inherited, learned, experienced, heard and felt even from before birth? What “me” is there without the genes inherited from my parents and their parents before them, and what “me” is there without everyone who’s ever passed before my eyes or spoken close to me? What “ego” is there without causes and triggers? I guess the important part is understanding that there is no “me” existing on its own.. everything else has contributed to the creation of what I call “me”, so I exist in balance with everything else, because I am not separate from it.

Sorry for running just a but long.

[emoji1374] SatToday

[John.3]

Hi John,

Show me your ego.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

Jishin,

Your statement really struck me. I realize I have no idea how to show you my ego or even how to grasp it, aside from just regurgitating a bunch of mental chatter on the page and I don't think that would be it.

Thank you for your input.

Gassho,
John
Sat today

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[John.3]

What we can be is not so attached to our ego, to the push and pull of our desires and drives, excesses and runaway destructive thoughts and emotions, so that our thoughts are moderate, balanced, like an ox well tamed. Or, a hamster well tamed. [emoji14]

This is really helpful and practical, thanks for your insight Jundo.

The thought of a well tamed hamster had me in stiches when I read it! [emoji23] I will keep that mental image as I practice at a more tamed ego and moderate thinking.

The idea of two sets of eyes, two selves is a helpful way to look at it. It creates a way forward somehow.

Gassho,
John
Sat Today



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[John.3]

Nothing to Pacify

The second ancestral great teacher [Dazu Huike] asked the first
ancestor [Bodhidharma], “My mind is not yet calm. Would the teacher
pacify it?”
The [first] ancestor said, “Bring your mind, and I will pacify you.”
[Dazu Huike] said, “Seeking my mind I cannot grasp it.”
The [first] ancestor said, “I have finished pacifying your mind.”

When all is totally clear, nothing need be cleared.
Where all is hidden and dark, is utter confusion.
Seeking a teacher by the side of the path,
he accidentally met himself.
Enticed by calm water, he walked a bit in the clouds.

From Eihei Koroku

Thank you for sharing this Inshin, this is really good.

Gassho,
John
Sat today

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[John.3]

What is “me” or “you”, but the sum of everything inherited, learned, experienced, heard and felt even from before birth? What “me” is there without the genes inherited from my parents and their parents before them, and what “me” is there without everyone who’s ever passed before my eyes or spoken close to me? What “ego” is there without causes and triggers? I guess the important part is understanding that there is no “me” existing on its own.. everything else has contributed to the creation of what I call “me”, so I exist in balance with everything else, because I am not separate from it.

Sorry for running just a but long.

[emoji1374] SatToday

Bion,
You have a way with words my friend [emoji4][emoji120]. This is a very interesting point, and a lot to contemplate. Thank you for sharing, I have never thought of self in this context.

Gassho,
John
Sat today

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[Risho]

John, Trust but verify; you can’t believe these folks lol

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-zen-of-everything/id1467408488?i=1000504771213

seriously, a strong ego is not a bad thing, eg Jundo has a solid ego which is why he was able to hone it for good, create treeleaf, which is the reason I even have a practice; so a big ego is no problem; I have a big ego and it sometimes gets me in trouble; all in all I think it’s a really good thing if it doesn’t turn into something damaging. That’s our practice here.

In reality, I am here and am good at things because ultimately the universe (not woo woo) conspired to bring me here where I am. And it did the same thing for you too. Zen is about a gratitude for living that if we practice properly checks that ego.

gassho

risho
-stlah
sorry for going long; I should’ve just said listen to the podcast episode lol

[John.3]

John, Trust but verify; you can’t believe these folks lol

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-zen-of-everything/id1467408488?i=1000504771213

seriously, a strong ego is not a bad thing, eg Jundo has a solid ego which is why he was able to hone it for good, create treeleaf, which is the reason I even have a practice; so a big ego is no problem; I have a big ego and it sometimes gets me in trouble; all in all I think it’s a really good thing if it doesn’t turn into something damaging. That’s our practice here.

In reality, I am here and am good at things because ultimately the universe (not woo woo) conspired to bring me here where I am. And it did the same thing for you too. Zen is about a gratitude for living that if we practice properly checks that ego.

gassho

risho
-stlah
sorry for going long; I should’ve just said listen to the podcast episode lol

Thanks for your insight on this Risho . And thanks for the podcast link!

Gassho,
John
Sat today

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[Kyōsen]

To add a bit to what others have said: Ego or self isn't the problem, it's our relationship to it that can be healthy or unhealthy. I think many of us do (and have) struggled with an unhealthy relationship with our sense of self; conceiving of it inaccurately or even inappropriately. In Zen we can come to see this self in a clearer way, understanding its utility and the fun we can have with it if we use it appropriately. It's like a tool: If you use a hammer for everything, then things probably won't go so well for you, but if you use a hammer for things that call for a hammer then you'll go through things pretty well.

Gassho
Kyōsen
Sat|LAH

[gaurdianaq]

I don't really have anything to add to this, so I just wanted to show my support for what everyone else has already said!


Evan,
Sat today, lah

[JimInBC]

I like to sit on the sofa with my ego in the morning, when only the dog, cats, and I are up. If it goes away, that's fine, too. But it gives us a chance to set the day's priorities.

It comes to work with me. That's probably where our relationship is most strained. We need each other, but it's a devil of a time getting the right balance.

I gently ask my ego to give me some time when walking the dog or hiking. At those times it just blocks the view.

Sometimes my ego becomes talkative when I go to bed. Which isn't really helping anyone.

And sometimes my ego makes the stupidest comments to my wife. And then it will go away, and I am fully present with my wife. But I still have to clean up ego's karma.

Sorry for going long. Me ego made me do it.

Gassho, Jim
ST/LaH

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[Seikan]

Sorry... Couldn't resist posting this. Apologies to anyone that doesn't get the reference.



Gassho,
Seikan

-stlah-



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