How to find joy ?

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 40771

    #16
    Originally posted by WanderingIntrospection
    I've been reading "The Three Pillars of Zen" recently and it had a wonderful section about this.

    "The very foundation of shikan-taza is an unshakable faith that sitting as the Buddha sat, with the mind void of all conceptions, of all beliefs and points of view, is the actualization or unfoldment of the inherently enlightened Bodhimind with which all are endowed. At the same time this sitting is entered into in the faith that it will one day culminate in the sudden and direct perception of the true nature of this Mind—in other words, enlightenment. Therefore to strive self-consciously for satori or any other gain from zazen is as unnecessary as it is undesirable"
    That book is one of the few Zen books that I actually can be heard to caution about. That book has done so much damage over the decades sending people into some pressure cooker practice in a race for big booming Kenshos! The author (Kapleau Roshi) and his teachers (Yasutan-Harada) represent a small corner of folks, not so influential in Japan but must more in the west (through the "Sambokyodan" and Maezumi Roshi's Lineage) creating a mixed Rinzai-Soto practice. That is fine, but Yasutani created a kind of high pressure "blood comes out your eyes" version of Shikantaza that is secondary to their high pressure Koan Introspection Zazen.

    If you are going to read that book, I would suggest that you read the following three essays too ...

    Special reading - once born twice born zen
    Hi All, I thought to post some special reading topics. The theme is "readings that will help in understanding Zen readings". 8) For years and years, after first starting Zen practice, I would read many "Zen Books" but not quite understand why so many seemed to be saying rather different things (or the same


    and

    Howdy, I'd like to continue this special series of "readings that will help in understanding Zen readings" with a bit more of ... Once-Born, Twice-Born Zen by Conrad Hyers I agree with those folks who think the "Once-Born Twice-Born" categories are a bit black/white and broad brush. I do think the book


    Also this:

    Sanbõkyõdan
    Zen and the Way of the New Religions
    Robert H. SHARF




    A biographer of Kapleau Roshi sums up "Three Pillars" this way:

    Kraft points out that Kapleau’s book is “in large measure a book about kensho” (p.14) which in itself is problematic as for many, including some of the authors of the essays, this led to “inflated expectations… [and] [t]he discrepancy between anticipatory visions of enlightenment and actual experiences of insight”. (p.15) This disjuncture between what Kapleau wrote and the actual experiences of Zen students has led to some criticisms of The Three Pillars of Zen as a book that gives an unrealistic picture of what to expect from zazen. ...

    While this emphasis on and almost inevitability of kensho is, I think, a fair criticism of The Three Pillars of Zen, there is little doubt that Kapleau’s book brought many people to the study and practice of Zen Buddhism and for that we should be grateful. It is also necessary that we understand where and how Kapleau learned his Zen practice to better understand why he wrote and taught the way he did.
    http://www.thezensite.com/ZenBookRev...enpractice.htm
    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 01-26-2021, 04:30 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

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    • Rousei
      Member
      • Oct 2020
      • 118

      #17
      Thank you for the advice! I've had the book for quite some time now but never got to it. Recently I just finished a group of books (slow reader) and felt the urge to also read this one (I've bought it now so I feel I should at least read it). I noticed the book made a point of mentioning that it's talking about both Soto and Rinzai. I'm afraid I don't have the kind of intensity needed to create such a reaction lol so I'll stick with "whatever it is, is whatever it is".

      My next two books are "The Heart Sutra" from Red Pine and the "Hoofprint of the Ox" by Master Sheng-yen. I'm interested in diving a little deeper into Zen and Mahayana philosophy. Luckily I chose these two from the recommended reading list on TreeLeaf so hopefully they're all good! Along with my last book "Opening the Hand of Thought" which was excellent!

      I greatly appreciate the extra reading and have them bookmarked. I really resonated with what you wrote in the special reading post.

      "In other words, it took me a long time to realize that "Zen Books" (not to mention "Buddhist Books" in general) come in several flavors, often by different teachers within even the same school"

      Even with my limited reading I can feel a sense of this. I'll stick with what's on the recommended book list from now on!

      Gassho
      Mark
      ST

      Originally posted by Jundo
      That book is one of the few Zen books that I actually can be heard to caution about. That book has done so much damage over the decades sending people into some pressure cooker practice in a race for big booming Kenshos! The author (Kapleau Roshi) and his teachers (Yasutan-Harada) represent a small corner of folks, not so influential in Japan but must more in the west (through the "Sambokyodan" and Maezumi Roshi's Lineage) creating a mixed Rinzai-Soto practice. That is fine, but Yasutani created a kind of high pressure "blood comes out your eyes" version of Shikantaza that is secondary to their high pressure Koan Introspection Zazen.

      If you are going to read that book, I would suggest that you read the following three essays too ...

      Special reading - once born twice born zen
      Hi All, I thought to post some special reading topics. The theme is "readings that will help in understanding Zen readings". 8) For years and years, after first starting Zen practice, I would read many "Zen Books" but not quite understand why so many seemed to be saying rather different things (or the same


      and

      Howdy, I'd like to continue this special series of "readings that will help in understanding Zen readings" with a bit more of ... Once-Born, Twice-Born Zen by Conrad Hyers I agree with those folks who think the "Once-Born Twice-Born" categories are a bit black/white and broad brush. I do think the book


      Also this:

      Sanbõkyõdan
      Zen and the Way of the New Religions
      Robert H. SHARF




      A biographer of Kapleau Roshi sums up "Three Pillars" this way:



      Gassho, Jundo

      STLah
      Last edited by Rousei; 01-26-2021, 05:42 AM.
      浪省 - RouSei - Wandering Introspection

      Comment

      • Ryumon
        Member
        • Apr 2007
        • 1815

        #18
        About ten days ago, it was Friday, which for me is a day I don't work (I've recently arranged my schedule so I only work four days a week), and, in the morning, I said to my partner, "I want to do something fun today."

        I ended up spending much of the day dealing with car problems.

        I don't seek fun or joy any more. :-)

        Gasso,

        Kirk

        sat
        I know nothing.

        Comment

        • Inshin
          Member
          • Jul 2020
          • 557

          #19
          Originally posted by Ryumon
          About ten days ago, it was Friday, which for me is a day I don't work (I've recently arranged my schedule so I only work four days a week), and, in the morning, I said to my partner, "I want to do something fun today."

          I ended up spending much of the day dealing with car problems.

          I don't seek fun or joy any more. :-)

          Gasso,

          Kirk

          sat
          Hahaha, brilliant "The Zen of fixing cars".
          Reminds me of Kosho Uchiyama (if I remember correctly) saying that he didn't do anything particular for fun, but he was finding fun in whatever he was doing.

          Gassho
          Sat

          Gassho
          Sat

          Comment

          • Risho
            Member
            • May 2010
            • 3178

            #20
            Ryumon, Inshin -

            Inshin - if you find out where you got that Uchiyama quote, please let us know - that's very cool.

            Gassho

            Risho
            -stlah
            Email: risho.treeleaf@gmail.com

            Comment

            • Shoki
              Member
              • Apr 2015
              • 580

              #21
              What works for is knowing that planet earth is 4.5 billion years old and in all that time you get these few years to be here. What are the chances? Thanks, universe!! So you better make the most of that opportunity and do something with it.

              Gassho
              ST-lah
              Shoki

              Comment

              • Shujin
                Novice Priest-in-Training
                • Feb 2010
                • 1132

                #22
                Originally posted by Inshin
                I was reading about joy in Dharma practice yesterday and thought of sharing this talk by Roland Yuno Rech. If you have a minute it's a nice read. https://www.abzen.eu/en/teaching/tei...e-du-dharma-en


                Gassho
                Sat
                This was wonderful, thank you.

                Gassho,
                Shujin
                st
                Kyōdō Shujin 教道 守仁

                Comment

                • Inshin
                  Member
                  • Jul 2020
                  • 557

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Risho
                  Ryumon, Inshin -

                  Inshin - if you find out where you got that Uchiyama quote, please let us know - that's very cool.

                  Gassho

                  Risho
                  -stlah
                  Hi Risho,
                  It's from the book "How to Cook Your Life", though he speaks more of passion for life rather than fun.
                  At the same time, I added that I do not live my life to have
                  fun. The way I experience the meaning and value of my life is
                  by throwing all my passion for living into everything I do. I am
                  afraid that if having pleasure were the purpose of my life, then
                  three shots of whiskey a day would be it. And, if I were to take
                  that seriously, how could I help but think that I live anything
                  but a pretty wretched existence. It is vital here when talking
                  about the meaning of life to clearly distinguish between
                  emotional feelings of pleasure of joy and devoting oneself to
                  that passion for life.
                  When people complain of being unhappy and of living a
                  meaningless or empty life, I wonder if it is not because they
                  have taken it for granted that the meaning of their life is to be
                  found simply in some sort of emotional pleasure or joy. If you
                  decide that only this sort of “happiness” constitutes the
                  meaning of your life, then it only follows that you are going to
                  feel a hollowness in what you do, for there is just no such thing
                  as never-ending pleasure or happiness.
                  .....................................
                  Having a passion
                  for life means only to pour all our life forces into your true Self.Life, in terms of everything we encounter, the people with

                  whom we come into contact, all the material things we use and
                  handle every day―that is our life and our true Self, and it is
                  into this that we throw our life force.
                  Gassho
                  Sat

                  Comment

                  • Risho
                    Member
                    • May 2010
                    • 3178

                    #24
                    Thank you!

                    Gassho

                    Risho
                    -stlah
                    Email: risho.treeleaf@gmail.com

                    Comment

                    • Shonin
                      Member
                      • Apr 2009
                      • 885

                      #25
                      Thank you for that ,Inshin. Good timing for me to read that.Having one of those days.

                      Dave
                      SAT/LAH

                      Comment

                      • Tai Shi
                        Member
                        • Oct 2014
                        • 3446

                        #26
                        How to find joy ?

                        For me I find joy in positive poetry. My daughter a translator of Asian poetry trained with MFA in Asian language translation University of Iowa bought me books of poetry by Rumi and Hafiz Persian poets both with so much joy. TS Eliot’s Four Quartets, John Keats and William Wordsworth, the Sonnets of Shakespeare, Japanese classical Haiku also purchased by my daughter
                        What Joy as I face so much. If you can read, thank a teacher
                        Gassho
                        sat/ lah
                        Tai Shi.



                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
                        Last edited by Tai Shi; 01-27-2021, 01:08 PM.
                        Peaceful, Tai Shi. Ubasoku; calm, supportive, for positive poetry 優婆塞 台 婆

                        Comment

                        • Tom A.
                          Member
                          • May 2020
                          • 255

                          #27
                          Very wise for a lot of mundane things:
                          94C9F3CB-9894-41B5-A517-0518F6FC6F2D.jpeg

                          Gassho,
                          Tom
                          Sat/Lah
                          Last edited by Jundo; 01-28-2021, 12:10 AM.
                          “Do what’s hard to do when it is the right thing to do.”- Robert Sopalsky

                          Comment

                          • Jundo
                            Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                            • Apr 2006
                            • 40771

                            #28
                            Originally posted by StoBird
                            Very wise for a lot of mundane things: [ATTACH=CONFIG]7008[/ATTACH]

                            Gassho,
                            Tom
                            Sat/Lah
                            Wonderful!

                            Gassho, J

                            STLah
                            ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                            Comment

                            • Ugrok
                              Member
                              • Sep 2014
                              • 323

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Tai Shi
                              For me I find joy in positive poetry. My daughter a translator of Asian poetry trained with MFA in Asian language translation University of Iowa bought me books of poetry by Rumi and Hafiz Persian poets both with so much joy. TS Eliot’s Four Quartets, John Keats and William Wordsworth, the Sonnets of Shakespeare, Japanese classical Haiku also purchased by my daughter
                              What Joy as I face so much. If you can read, thank a teacher
                              Gassho
                              sat/ lah
                              Tai Shi.
                              Sorry for derailing the thread a bit, but i'm interested in Rumi's poems ; do you know which book i should begin with ? Found this on evil amazon, is it good ?



                              Gassho,
                              Uggy,
                              Sat today, LAH
                              Last edited by Ugrok; 01-28-2021, 11:07 AM.

                              Comment

                              • Tairin
                                Member
                                • Feb 2016
                                • 2864

                                #30
                                Originally posted by StoBird
                                Very wise for a lot of mundane things:
                                [ATTACH=CONFIG]7008[/ATTACH]

                                Gassho,
                                Tom
                                Sat/Lah
                                That’s getting printed out and put on my refrigerator. Thank you


                                Tairin
                                Sat today and lah
                                泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

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