Slacking at work

[shikantazen]

I have never been motivated at work and always did bare minimum to keep the job. I have been frugal saved and invested and have like 3-5 more years of work life after which I will be fine financially without working. This has made me even more lazy at work.

I feel guilty I am not giving back to my employer but still can't motivate myself. I also think this is some kind of breaking the precepts (may be not stealing?). I work as a software developer and don't think changing careers will help. This is relatively easy and comfortable.

I don't care much about working hard but am more worried about how this slacking impacts my practice. I am worried all my sitting also will be wasted if I keep slacking at work (if it is breaking some precepts)

Wanted to get your thoughts on how you approach your work. How important is doing our due diligence at work for our practice

Gassho,
Sam
ST

[Inshin]

I have never been motivated at work and always did bare minimum to keep the job. I have been frugal saved and invested and have like 3-5 more years of work life after which I will be fine financially without working. This has made me even more lazy at work.

I feel guilty I am not giving back to my employer but still can't motivate myself. I also think this is some kind of breaking the precepts (may be not stealing?). I work as a software developer and don't think changing careers will help. This is relatively easy and comfortable.

I don't care much about working hard but am more worried about how this slacking impacts my practice. I am worried all my sitting also will be wasted if I keep slacking at work (if it is breaking some precepts)

Wanted to get your thoughts on how you approach your work. How important is doing our due diligence at work for our practice

Gassho,
Sam
ST

For whom do you practice?

Gassho
Sat

[Jishin]

I have never been motivated at work and always did bare minimum to keep the job. I have been frugal saved and invested and have like 3-5 more years of work life after which I will be fine financially without working. This has made me even more lazy at work.

I feel guilty I am not giving back to my employer but still can't motivate myself. I also think this is some kind of breaking the precepts (may be not stealing?). I work as a software developer and don't think changing careers will help. This is relatively easy and comfortable.

I don't care much about working hard but am more worried about how this slacking impacts my practice. I am worried all my sitting also will be wasted if I keep slacking at work (if it is breaking some precepts)

Wanted to get your thoughts on how you approach your work. How important is doing our due diligence at work for our practice

Gassho,
Sam
ST

Work flat out sucks sometimes but the alternatives are a different job, unemployment, retirement or disability.

The other side of the fence is always greener even when you are at the other side.

I rather work as it is better than the alternative.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

[Kokuu]

I feel guilty I am not giving back to my employer but still can't motivate myself.

Hi Sam

Most people here (I hope!) sit daily, or pretty much so. Some days we might feel drawn to the cushion, other days not so much. We sit anyway.

I don't work due to ill health and wish I could. Admittedly I loved my main employment but gave 100% (or nearly so) in every job I was employed to do whether it was delivering newspapers, washing dishes or being a research scientist.

Practice, for me, involves giving fully of oneself in all situations, not just those we feel motivated in.

When you say that your slacking at work might affect your practice it sounds like you are making a distinction between practice and the rest of your life. Do you think that is the case? Why is work not part of practice?

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[shikantazen]

Hi Sam

Most people here (I hope!) sit daily, or pretty much so. Some days we might feel drawn to the cushion, other days not so much. We sit anyway.

I don't work due to ill health and wish I could. Admittedly I loved my main employment but gave 100% (or nearly so) in every job I was employed to do whether it was delivering newspapers, washing dishes or being a research scientist.

Practice, for me, involves giving fully of oneself in all situations, not just those we feel motivated in.

When you say that your slacking at work might affect your practice it sounds like you are making a distinction between practice and the rest of your life. Do you think that is the case? Why is work not part of practice?

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

Thank you Kokuu for pointing that out.

Gassho,
Sam
ST

[shikantazen]

Work flat out sucks sometimes but the alternatives are a different job, unemployment, retirement or disability.

The other side of the fence is always greener even when you are at the other side.

I rather work as it is better than the alternative.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

So true. No escape

Gassho,
Sam
ST

[Jakuden]

Sometimes we have to acknowledge that we are not yet at the “you are me and I am you” realization point of practice; if we were, we would never slack because we would realize that we are our employers and vice versa.

In that case, focusing on learning to feel that exactly what you are doing at every moment is the most important thing in the world can be helpful. I have ADHD, and have had to learn to trick my own mind into becoming interested in things I am not particularly motivated to do. But ultimately it eases that Dukkha of not following the Eightfold path, and results in the good feeling of Right Effort. And as a bonus, you are Buddha as you work [emoji846]

Sorry for the extra sentences.

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH


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[Amelia]

I have ADHD, and have had to learn to trick my own mind into becoming interested in things I am not particularly motivated to do.

Sometimes I feel that we are much alike. I have no diagnoses, so I cannot truly say, but I relate so much to this. I often have to turn something into a game or a list to trick myself.

Gassho
Sat, lah

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[Jundo]

Such good advice from folks here!

I think that the situation for slacking monks in the old days was not much different from that of the modern worker: They would hit you with a stick or some other penalty, your "co-worker" monks would have to pick up the slack and sometimes give you "Gassho" with the middle finger most prominent , and eventually you would be "fired" and tossed out the front door unemployed and hungry. All that can be very motivating.

For me, the best solution is to find something inspiring in one's task, no matter how mundane. Comparing the task at hand to some mental idea of "where I'd rather be, e.g., on a beach" is the first thing to give up. When on a beach, be on a beach ... when in a dull meeting, just be in a dull meeting. Find something in the task which becomes a game, play, fascinating, heart warming, moving, fun, funny or otherwise enjoyable to you ... or just somehow a time of peace.

The "other side of the fence" comment is so true. The proof is all the outwardly "successful" folks who seem so miserable in their Mercedes, and who never quite "arrive" at the destination despite all the achievements and degrees. There are also miserable poor folks, of course. Best to learn to be a content "just where one is" folk, whether rich or poor. (Buddha, Dogen and all the Zen masters had outwardly rich and successful patrons, as well as the less well off). That contentment, as you know, does not stop you from continuing to diligently work for goals in life or practice ... but just makes you content with every step of the way as one moves onward.

(Sorry to run long, like a long dull meeting)

Gassho, J

STLah

[shikantazen]

Thank you all for such wise words. As Jakuden mentions, until I really experience non separation, overcoming laziness has to be an act of will. The below parts in Kokuu's post hit the nail for me.

Practice, for me, involves giving fully of oneself in all situations, not just those we feel motivated in....
Why is work not a practice

I recently read "Instructions for the cook" as well and what kokuu says seems similar to the "parental mind" described there; having a parental love towards all things and people (big or small, sacred or non sacred, work or zazen) and taking care of whatever comes up in life.

I also like Jundo's suggestion: Comparing the task at hand to some mental idea of "where I'd rather be, e.g., on a beach" is the first thing to give up. I can definitely use that.

It seems the solution to my situation is to "keep making the effort" in the right direction as much as I can just like I do in zazen.

Sorry for going over

Gassho,
Sam
ST

[Shoki]

I enjoyed my job for many years but because of an involuntary transfer the last for years before retirement were total hell. To get me through each day I always remembered Shunryu Suzuki's words from Zen Mind Beginner's Mind;

When you do something, you should burn yourself completely, like a good bonfire, leaving no trace of yourself.

Gassho
ST-lah
Shoki

[Tairin]

Practice, for me, involves giving fully of oneself in all situations, not just those we feel motivated in.

When you say that your slacking at work might affect your practice it sounds like you are making a distinction between practice and the rest of your life. Do you think that is the case? Why is work not part of practice?

For me what Kokuu expressed was one of the true revelations of this practice. Many translations of Dogen use the expression “life-practice” one word. There is no separation between the time we practice and the rest of the our day. This was the lesson from “Instructions for the Cook”. When I find myself slacking or less motivated I bring myself back to the life-practice.

All of life is our temple... not just the time we are sitting on the zafu.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

(Apologies for the extra sentences)

[Kokuu]

It seems the solution to my situation is to "keep making the effort" in the right direction as much as I can just like I do in zazen.

I really think that is the only answer when we are not feeling the motivation for any reason. It is interesting that some psychological studies show that doing things can produce motivation and momentum rather than the other way around which we would assume to be the case.

If you are in the position to quit work for good in a few years, I would really like for you to be able to look back on your time in work with pride rather than a sense of guilt.

One of the reasons for ethical behaviour in Buddhism is that we do not cause suffering for others. However, what many people do not think about is that when we behave ethically, our own mind is usually far more at ease. I imagine that most of us can testify that even if we suffer as a result of doing the right thing, there is a definite sense of peace about that. This is not the case when we profit from being underhand, at least not for most people, which tends to leave a niggling sense of agitation about it, which you seem to have at the moment.

Apologies for more sentences than three.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Kyotai]

"At dawn, when you have trouble getting out of bed, tell yourself: “I have to go to work — as a human being. What do I have to complain of, if I’m going to do what I was born for — the things I was brought into the world to do? Or is this what I was created for? To huddle under the blankets and stay warm? So you were born to feel “nice”? Instead of doing things and experiencing them? Don’t you see the plants, the birds, the ants and spiders and bees going about their individual tasks, putting the world in order, as best they can? And you’re not willing to do your job as a human being? Why aren’t you running to do what your nature demands?" - Marcus Aurelius

Work hard not for your boss or your coworkers, but because YOU are a part of the universe, and have taken on a responsibility to fulfil.

Gassho, Kyotai

[Koushi]

This hit home for me as a fellow IT worker, especially being unemployed for 8 months due to the pandemic. In my previous job, I was the SME and trainer for my team, as well as a pseudo-engineer who teetered between divisions as needed; however, I was only able to do so because I automated 80% of my work, letting mundane easy tasks run themselves while I focused on the more people-oriented tasks.

Before that, I was mindlessly showing up to work for an easy $30/hr paycheck until I felt like there was more I could be doing — not for me, but my team. It was that realignment in priorities that kept the motivation going to implement the automation and wiggle my way into the other roles. I was initially complacent because the salary allowed me to give more than I ever had to charities and to help family, but that only went so far before I was honest with myself and my laziness.

Now, after almost a year of unemployment with no job prospects on the horizon, I wish I could be back at work doing those things lol. The free time has allowed for more study and practice — but what good is practice doing in my little hobbit hole if I’m not able to go out into life and the world and practice there too? When working, work, when unemployed, be unemployed, (but don’t be lazy either way if you can help it )

Sorry for the length of the post,

Gassho,
Jesse
ST