How do you stop trying to fix yourself during zazen ?

[Ugrok]

Hello !

Lately i'm going through a bit of a "zazen" crisis. I noticed more and more that when i'm practicing, i'm always trying to FIX something. I'm not relaxed enough ; i'm not paying attention enough ; i have too many thoughts or i have too few thoughts ; i'm too anxious and should not be cause there are no reasons to ; etc., etc. Always fixating on myself on how to make it "better". I know the answer : when you notice you are doing this, just go back to the breathe or to the posture and let it go ; but that in itself IS somehow trying to fix something. I also notice that this very "trying to fix myself" is what makes me feel bad in the first place, so id' like to stop it ! I also feel bad cause i'm far from practicing for the sake of others...

How do you stop trying to fix yourself ?

Gassho,

Uggy,
Sat Today,
About to LAH

[Bion]

Hello !

Lately i'm going through a bit of a "zazen" crisis. I noticed more and more that when i'm practicing, i'm always trying to FIX something. I'm not relaxed enough ; i'm not paying attention enough ; i have too many thoughts or i have too few thoughts ; i'm too anxious and should not be cause there are no reasons to ; etc., etc. Always fixating on myself on how to make it "better". I know the answer : when you notice you are doing this, just go back to the breathe or to the posture and let it go ; but that in itself IS somehow trying to fix something. I also notice that this very "trying to fix myself" is what makes me feel bad in the first place, so id' like to stop it ! I also feel bad cause i'm far from practicing for the sake of others...

How do you stop trying to fix yourself ?

Gassho,

Uggy,
Sat Today,
About to LAH

Did you just sit with me in the Free Sitting Room, or am I mistaken? [emoji1]
Trying to fix yourself is not bad, it just means you want to improve. Zazen, however, needs no improvement, which is a wonderful thing, really. Zazen can be sleepy, worried, easy, difficult, sore, anxious, long or short..but it always is zazen, so let it be what it is and just sit with all of it. You said it yourself: “lately” it’s been like this, but who can say what it’ll be like the next time you sit?

Sorry for the extra lines!
[emoji1374] SatToday

[Ryumon]

Hello !

Lately i'm going through a bit of a "zazen" crisis. I noticed more and more that when i'm practicing, i'm always trying to FIX something. I'm not relaxed enough ; i'm not paying attention enough ; i have too many thoughts or i have too few thoughts ; i'm too anxious and should not be cause there are no reasons to ; etc., etc. Always fixating on myself on how to make it "better". I know the answer : when you notice you are doing this, just go back to the breathe or to the posture and let it go ; but that in itself IS somehow trying to fix something. I also notice that this very "trying to fix myself" is what makes me feel bad in the first place, so id' like to stop it ! I also feel bad cause i'm far from practicing for the sake of others...

How do you stop trying to fix yourself ?

Over time, you'll realize that there's nothing to fix.

Gassho,

Kirk

sat

[Jundo]

I just sit with the fulfillment of sitting being sitting.

If one wants nothing more than X, is totally fulfilled by X, then ... when Xing ... all is achieved.

But, if while Xing, one craves Y or Z, then the trouble begins.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Kokuu]

How do you stop trying to fix yourself ?

Hi Ugrok

I found the first step in the process was accepting the desire for things to be different and the mental attempts to fix that.

When we sit, we can just watch ourselves trying to fix what we are doing and know that is okay.

I would include that sense of 'needing to fix' and not push it away.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Kevin M]

I know the answer : when you notice you are doing this, just go back to the breathe or to the posture and let it go ; but that in itself IS somehow trying to fix something.

FWIW from my perspective as a novice I personally find Jundo's instruction for "open, spacious awareness" helpful. So not so much concentrating on one thing, or specifically letting thoughts go, but rather just sitting with the doors of my awareness fully open in the act of sitting so thoughts dissolve on their own in a wider field of awareness.

Gassho,
Kevin
#ST #LAH

[Naiko]

Hi Uggy,
You are still practicing for others! And thank you for your practice.

I’m pretty new to Zazen, so I don’t have much wisdom to add, except that when such strivings come up for me, I give then an inner compassionate nod. I acknowledge that those are just another way for my mind to keep grasping at a sense of self and dance with dukkha. And I try to let them float by like any other thoughts. Jundo has posted a couple of teachings about Zazen as reenactment ritual. This, for me, shifted any ideas of Zazen as a practice I was striving to improve or even “do” to something else entirely. Yes, it’s a concept that I’ll likely drop when it’s time, but for now it inspires me. I can’t quite find the right words..so I am running long and apologize.
Gassho,
Krista
st

[Seikan]

Hi Ugrok,

You are definitely not alone as you can see from all of the wonderful responses so far--we're all in this together.

I think many of us have a desire to "fix" something about our lives, else we wouldn't be drawn to the practice in the first place, and that underlying desire also helps to keep us on the path to some degree. Without it, we may fall into a state of complacency about our situation in life. The key is finding the right balance so that we don't lean too far in either direction (complacency or endless striving). I myself am very much still learning how to walk this tightrope. More often than not, I lose my balance and fall off. Luckily, there is always a net below to catch me, and that net is the practice itself.

When I find myself getting caught up in judging my practice while sitting, I try to take a step back and see the judging as just another bit of the Zazen "scenery". When we judge the judging itself, that just leads us further down the proverbial rabbit hole.

Gassho,
Rob

-stlah-


(Apologies for the extra sentences. The opportunity to think through this was a lesson for me as well. )

[Onka]

Hey Uggy
I don't think your Zazen practice is in a bit of a crisis. To me it sounds like a natural plateau. Using a personal analogy I'd suggest your practice plateau is akin to my competitive swimming days where I'd still be training 12 times a week, still doing additional weight sessions, still doing additional soft sand running sessions yet my times for various events wouldn't change. I could sometimes go a whole season with no change then at one meet all of a sudden I've taken half a second off of a personal best time despite nothing changing in my regime. If I were you Uggy I'd just sit. If you catch yourself trying to fix things acknowledge it but continue sitting. One day you'll be sitting and afterwards you'll say hey, I wasn't trying to fix something. You will have come off of your practice plateau... but there'll be more so just sit.
Gassho
Onka
Sat today

*apologies for going over 3 sentences

[Geika]

This used to be a major fixation for me. I wish I could say that there was something I did to change it and settle, but really it was just practice and repetition. I guess the easiest way to put it is that I eventually got bored of worrying about it.

Gassho
Sat, lah

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Ryumon]

I just came across this in a new book, Discovering the True Self, a collection of excerpts from talks by Kodo Sawaki.

“Many people come to me and say, "When I do zazen distracting thoughts arise." You realize why you know distracting thoughts arise? It's because when you practice zazen you calm down and notice the distracting thoughts. Zazen is colorless and transparent. That's why those thoughts and ideas are so clearly evident."

Gassho,

Kirk

Sat

[Jundo]

How do you strop trying to fix yourself during zazen ?

to

How do you stop trying to fix yourself during zazen ?

There is nothing to fix, everything is a shining jewel as it is, even wrong spelling is perfectly, rightly "wrong spelling."

Yet, even so, I fixed your spelling. How's that?!

(A Koan)

Gassho, J

STLah

[Jundo]

Hey Uggy
I don't think your Zazen practice is in a bit of a crisis. To me it sounds like a natural plateau. Using a personal analogy I'd suggest your practice plateau is akin to my competitive swimming days where I'd still be training 12 times a week, still doing additional weight sessions, still doing additional soft sand running sessions yet my times for various events wouldn't change. I could sometimes go a whole season with no change then at one meet all of a sudden I've taken half a second off of a personal best time despite nothing changing in my regime. If I were you Uggy I'd just sit. If you catch yourself trying to fix things acknowledge it but continue sitting. One day you'll be sitting and afterwards you'll say hey, I wasn't trying to fix something. You will have come off of your practice plateau... but there'll be more so just sit.
Gassho
Onka
Sat today

*apologies for going over 3 sentences

A yet, and yet, all that swimming took place within the one pool, and you were actually going no where yet arriving with each stroke.

How does one attain a "personal best" when there is neither a "person" nor anything to add?

(A Koan)

Gassho, J

STLah

[Jundo]

... I myself am very much still learning how to walk this tightrope. More often than not, I lose my balance and fall off. Luckily, there is always a net below to catch me, and that net is the practice itself. ...

We do our best to keep balance and poise, peacefully crossing the rope of life. There are no nets to save us in the end.

And yet, and yet, if we fall, there is no place to fall. Even stumbling and falling is perfectly stumbling and falling.

And yet, and yet and yet, try not to fall, step by step.

Of course, in rope walking, the secret in "trying not to fall" is not really fighting and trying, but simply relaxing, finding one's center, not struggling, giving up the effort and just walking.

(A Koan)

Gassho, J

STLah

[Jundo]

Hi Uggy,
You are still practicing for others! And thank you for your practice.

I’m pretty new to Zazen, so I don’t have much wisdom to add, except that when such strivings come up for me, I give then an inner compassionate nod. I acknowledge that those are just another way for my mind to keep grasping at a sense of self and dance with dukkha. And I try to let them float by like any other thoughts. Jundo has posted a couple of teachings about Zazen as reenactment ritual. This, for me, shifted any ideas of Zazen as a practice I was striving to improve or even “do” to something else entirely. Yes, it’s a concept that I’ll likely drop when it’s time, but for now it inspires me. I can’t quite find the right words..so I am running long and apologize.
Gassho,
Krista
st