A Zen Sangha is not like Other Places

[Jundo]

That said, there’s always a way to discuss and engage with the world, society, and issues with what we learn here outside of the doors (as many here can tell you, I’m very political everywhere but here).

That is very good and very much encouraged for those who feel drawn so in their hearts, and can even be an aspect of one's Zen Practice as much as sitting Zazen, walking Kinhin and eating Oryoki.

... but it isn’t on the sangha to endorse particular candidates or the like IMO — indeed, as much as we may disdain (or celebrate!) a particular candidate, at the end of the day they (and their supporters from all walks of life) are subject to the same suffering and conditions we are as a group and we should be mindful of such.

Yes, precisely:

We leave it to members to follow their own hearts as to what they consider in keeping with their Vows to Rescue the Sentient Beings, Precepts, Wisdom, Compassion and loving kindness.

The only kinds of political and social beliefs that cannot be an aspect of Zen Practice are those based on poisons such as greed, anger and violence, fervent militarism and nationalism (of the NAZI kind), divisive thinking such as jealousy, bigotry, racism and the like.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Kyōsen]

Gassho
Kyōsen
Sat|LAH

[Kevin M]

Kevin
#ST #LaH


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[Tosei]

Gassho.

Peter
st

[Jundo]

I'm rather confused as to why you are quoting my post here in this attack on people who...

" come to a Zen group expecting some combination of spa, therapy session, vegan cooking class, Yoga retreat, Latte Liberal political gathering, episode of Oprah.

Many Buddhist Sangha, realizing that people will pay well for such things, give their well-healed (meaning almost anyone in a 1st world country compared to sub-Saharan Africa) patrons of the "Middle-Upper-Middle Way" just what the spiritual consumer market demands. The major magazines do the same, with worthwhile essays interspersed with cheap self-help advice, relaxation techniques and psycho-babble."

It almost feels as if this is a personal attack on me, especially as I specifically said I didn't want to take the discussion on the Art thread further, as if you think this is what I am or how I represent myself or what I expect here. I'm so shocked and upset that I can't even think of anything to say to defend myself.

Gassho
Meitou
sattoday

Yes, you are right, Meitou. I deleted most of your quotes from the essay because, while some of the comments made inspired the essay, they are not really necessary or central to it at all.

I hope that what I wrote can help you understand a bit why I am so strict on these points. You are most treasured around here, you know.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLah

[Jinyo]

I'm rather confused as to why you are quoting my post here in this attack on people who...

" come to a Zen group expecting some combination of spa, therapy session, vegan cooking class, Yoga retreat, Latte Liberal political gathering, episode of Oprah.

Many Buddhist Sangha, realizing that people will pay well for such things, give their well-healed (meaning almost anyone in a 1st world country compared to sub-Saharan Africa) patrons of the "Middle-Upper-Middle Way" just what the spiritual consumer market demands. The major magazines do the same, with worthwhile essays interspersed with cheap self-help advice, relaxation techniques and psycho-babble."

It almost feels as if this is a personal attack on me, especially as I specifically said I didn't want to take the discussion on the Art thread further, as if you think this is what I am or how I represent myself or what I expect here. I'm so shocked and upset that I can't even think of anything to say to defend myself.

Gassho
Meitou
sattoday

I don't see this as a personal attack on you Meitou.

In the original art thread I suggested there were two possibly connected but also distinct areas of thought/questioning. The one I felt needed to be addressed, distinct from the context of the art forum is (I think) what Jundo is addressing here and was worth addressing because you posed a very important question.

...what happened to all life being our temple?

and the equally important concern of how we answer the existential questions that are brought by others (and within ourselves) concerning life and all its anxieties and challenges.

This seemed to me wider than the question about what is permissible on a Tree Leaf art forum and required clarification elsewhere.

Anyway, gratitude for bringing the question.


Gassho

Jinyo


sat today

[Gokai]

Thank you very much. Makes sense.
Gassho, Gokai.
Sat today

[Onkai]

Thank you, Jundo. I understand why partisan politics need to be kept out of the zendo. One of my most important practices is to hold the opponent of the candidate I support in loving kindness, and a politically neutral place helps maintain a heart without hatred and a mind open to reality.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/lah

[SNPII]

I appreciate your take on this topic.

Gassho
Sat With Upaya in Retreat today

[Jeff Naylor]

Thank you, Jundo. I understand why partisan politics need to be kept out of the zendo. One of my most important practices is to hold the opponent of the candidate I support in loving kindness, and a politically neutral place helps maintain a heart without hatred and a mind open to reality.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/lah

Thanks for this Onkai. That's a great practice!

Gassho
Jeff
Sat/lah