Gun Ownership Buddhism ?

[Aswini]

Re: Gun Ownership Buddhism ?

Re: Gun Ownership & Buddhism ?
by Jordan on Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:49 am

Australian Gun Law Update

Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts...
From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia
Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the real
figures from Down Under.
It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were
forced
by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be
destroyed by
our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers
more than $500 million dollars.
The first year results are now in:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent,
Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent ;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes,
44 percent)!
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms
are now up 300 percent.
(Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in,
the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!)
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady
decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically
upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed
that their prey is unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and
assaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how
public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense
was expended in "successfully ridding Australian society of guns." You
won't see this on the American evening news or hear your governor or
members of the State Assembly disseminating this information.
The Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the
hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control
laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.


Not sure about the quote above, but it resembles things I have seen elsewhere.
If you take the guns away from law abiding citizens, only the criminals have guns.

................ummmm...not true according to statisitics

In the 12 years since the law reforms, there have been no mass shootings. But there is also evidence of wider collateral benefits in reduced gun deaths overall. While the rate of firearm homicide was reducing in Australia by an average of 3% per year prior to the law reforms, this more than doubled to 7.5% per year after the introduction of the new laws, although to the delight of our local gun lobby, this failed to reach statistical significance simply because of the low statistical power inherent in the small numbers involved.[/

http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20080 ... nsult.html

australian crime rates from govt sources - http://www.aic.gov.au/topics/faqs/crime_rate.html

The USA has 14.3 times Australia’s population, 104 times our total firearm-caused deaths (30,143 in 2005 vs 289 in 2003), and 294 times Australia’s firearm homicide rate (12,352 in 2005 vs just 42 in 2005/06). In 1979, 705 people died from gunshots in Australia. Despite population growth, in 2003, this number had fallen to 289.

Gun lobby affiliated researchers in Australia have sought to repudiate these outcomes using embarrassingly naïve methods that have been heavily criticised in the research literature. While news of the latest gun massacre in the United States remains depressingly common, Australians today enjoy one of the safest communities on earth. John Howard’s first and most popular law reform stands as the world’s most successful reform of gun laws.

......and John Howard was the most right wing prime ministers Australia has ever had, so it was not poltical. I'm no great fan of John Howard but Gun Reform and declining crime rates was one of his greatest achievements. (the avg aust also got wealthier which probably contributed to declining crime rate).

The USA has 14.3 times Australia’s population, 104 times our total firearm-caused deaths (30,143 in 2005 vs 289 in 2003), and 294 times Australia’s firearm homicide rate (12,352 in 2005 vs just 42 in 2005/06). In 1979, 705 people died from gunshots in Australia. Despite population growth, in 2003, this number had fallen to 289.

Gun lobby affiliated researchers in Australia have sought to repudiate these outcomes using embarrassingly naïve methods that have been heavily criticised in the research literature. While news of the latest gun massacre in the United States remains depressingly common, Australians today enjoy one of the safest communities on earth. John Howard’s first and most popular law reform stands as the world’s most successful reform of gun laws.

[Martin]

Re: Gun Ownership Buddhism ?

I'll keep my views on the issues of principle for the forthcoming discussion in the Jukai forum, but what struck me about this thread is just how different our cultural perspectives are. To those in the USA, the right to bear arms and a relatively high level of gun ownership seems to be normal, and accepted if not necessarily agreed with. To many of us in the UK, I suspect, it seems outlandish, bizarre and brutal. We are all, to an extent, the product of the societies that made us, and on some issues - and this is one - that may give us very different perspectives. I guess we'll need to remember that when we come to debate the issues of principle on this one.

Gassho

Martin

[Nagaruda]

Re: Gun Ownership Buddhism ?

... what struck me about this thread is just how different our cultural perspectives are ... We are all, to an extent, the product of the societies that made us, and on some issues - and this is one - that may give us very different perspectives ...

It could also be suggested that we're all products of our upbringing as well. As a child of hunters I've been raised to both fear and respect guns, and also admire and be saddened by the taking of life (human or animal) with them. Whether Nan Ch'uan using a knife with a cat or a person with a gun ... perhaps if one true word could be spoken outcomes would be different?

Nagaruda

[lorax]

Re: Gun Ownership Buddhism ?

Hi

I am sure you will hear more from me also during the upcoming study and discussion of the precept of not killing. Having carried a weapon for over 30 years as a federal law enforcement officer in the United States I have had to ponder this question for much of my life. Even now retired it is on my mind as my son now carries that responsibility also a law enforcement officer.

As for the immediate comment on an issue that seems to have migrated from a question of a conflict between owing a weapon for self defense and the precept of not killing to more a discussion on the right to own a firearm. One experience stands out in my mind that you all may want to ponder. In the late 1960’s there was civil unrest in many major metropolitan areas of he United States within predominantly Black communities. Like the other thread on malicious offering of miss-information on the Muslim community, in the late 1960’s the same mentality existed and misinformation was spread with the same intent to create fear in other communities. My stepfather believed this information and “prepared himself for the invasion of the white community by out of control blacks”. This preparation for home protection included buying a rifle and a handgun. For years the weapons lay loaded and ready for “ the invasion”. In his mind his home was secure. During this time he experienced a chronic illness and became depressed. My mother found him sitting on his bed, weapon in hand, ready to find relief from the burden his illness had placed on him. She was able to talk him out of killing himself. But what irony, a handgun purchased to protect him from perceived life threatening danger from without, nearly becomes the tool of his death by his own hand.

Think about it. I would suggest that living life fully engaged in your community guided by the precepts we are studying at this moment in time offer our best home security. Its worked or my wife and I for over 45 years living in diverse communities, urban and rural, from Hawaii to Washington DC.

Jim

[Undo]

Re: Gun Ownership Buddhism ?

I would suggest that living life fully engaged in your community guided by the precepts we are studying at this moment in time offer our best home security.

Nicely said.
A universal solution too.

[Yugen]

Re: Gun Ownership Buddhism ?

Jim,
Well said. Thank you for sharing your experience.

Gassho,
Alex