How To Cook Your Life : from the Zen kitchen to Enlightenment.

[Jundo]

Thanks all, Sorry my question wasn't clear. I was asking how do we develop that contented (no gaining) mind for zazen. How do we deal with enlightenment expectations, wanting to improve situations or oneself and learn to love and accept everything as is

I ask this as I'm reading this book and it says "upright sitting" and "no gaining mind" are two most vital pieces of zazen:

https://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/Fujita-Issho-Polishing-a-Tile.pdf

Apologies for going over 3 sentences

Gassho,
Sam
ST

Know that "no gaining mind" is vital to sitting Zazen, and Issho Fujita is a wonderful teacher, but he is also one of the "posture obsessives" that my recent talk was addressed to regarding his attitude toward proper posture and "upright sitting," as here in that book :

Slowly rolling the pelvis forward and backward on the curved surface of the sit bones, we carefully look for point 2 in figure 4, the point where our body weight is supported most properly. ... The practice of sitting upright with a proper posture is a dynamic self-regulatory process powered by the continuous interaction between consciousness (thinking to move the pelvis so that the body weight falls vertically onto point 2) and sensations (sensing the result of this movement in body, breath and mind). So, during zazen the body continually fluctuates in very subtle ways, although they are too subtle to notice. While sitting zazen, we continue minutely adjusting the pelvis so that our body weight falls vertically onto point 2 at the bottom of our sitting posture, and we keep a delicate balance while feeling the verticality of the body’s central axis in deep relaxation. This balance is so delicate and fragile that it is easily lost by drowsiness and discursive thinking. When we notice that the balance is lost we just slowly recover it, unhurriedly guided by kinesthetic sensations. Keeping ourselves open to the world, we patiently recover the balance every time it is lost. The
practice of sitting upright with proper posture is just such a sober and sensible work, to be done serenely with sharp awareness.

Baloney because it is too much, too obsessed about posture (and the book, by the way, also contains strange claims about a kind of pseudo-scientific something called "rythms emitted from the cranial sacrum system https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/ala...-craniosacral/)

As to sitting with "no gaining mind," see if my next talk on "Zen as Embodiment (2) - Buddha Sitting Buddha" helps (it will be posted in the next day or two), as it is about Zazen as a kind of visualization exercise, a kind of acting a role, in which we feel in the bones that we are embodying the peace, fulfilment and equanimity of a Buddha sitting under the Bodhi tree ... thus actually coming to feel the "no gaining mind, nothing more to attain" peace, fulfilment and equanimity that we are pretending to feel. See if that helps.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Tom A.]

I've just started Kosho Uchiyama Roshi's commentary and as usual when reading anything related to Dogen's amazing teachings, I have to ask myself why I ever bother studying anything else, as his work seems to contain the answers to everything ever asked.
I know other people have mentioned reading this at the moment, so I've opened this thread for anyone who wants to chat about it in an informal way.
I'm trying to highlight favourite passages but as usual there's such a wealth of wisdom that it's tempting to highlight everything however today I picked out a couple of succinct passages regarding shikantaza.

"The basis for silent illumination is to entrust everything to the posture of zazen, letting go of all that comes up without trying to work out solutions for what we ought to do about this or that. This is what is called shikan-taza. When we do zazen with this attitude, it is no longer sitting for the purpose of fulfilling some artificial fantasy such as gaining enlightenment or improving our minds."

And

"This is the activity of shikan-taza. This practice itself is enlightenment; it is the wholehearted practice of this enlightenment which we should carry on."

Gassho
Meitou
Sattoday lah

Gassho,
Sat
Lah

[Tom A.]

Know that "no gaining mind" is vital to sitting Zazen, and Issho Fujita is a wonderful teacher, but he is also one of the "posture obsessives" that my recent talk was addressed to regarding his attitude toward proper posture and "upright sitting," as here in that book :



Baloney because it is too much, too obsessed about posture (and the book, by the way, also contains strange claims about a kind of pseudo-scientific something called "rythms emitted from the cranial sacrum system https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/ala...-craniosacral/)

As to sitting with "no gaining mind," see if my next talk on "Zen as Embodiment (2) - Buddha Sitting Buddha" helps (it will be posted in the next day or two), as it is about Zazen as a kind of visualization exercise, a kind of acting a role, in which we feel in the bones that we are embodying the peace, fulfilment and equanimity of a Buddha sitting under the Bodhi tree ... thus actually coming to feel the "no gaining mind, nothing more to attain" peace, fulfilment and equanimity that we are pretending to feel. See if that helps.

Gassho, J

STLah

Yes fight that pseudoscience! I love it!

Gassho
Tom
Sat
Lah

[Meitou]

Thanks all, Sorry my question wasn't clear. I was asking how do we develop that contented (no gaining) mind for zazen. How do we deal with enlightenment expectations, wanting to improve situations or oneself and learn to love and accept everything as is

I ask this as I'm reading this book and it says "upright sitting" and "no gaining mind" are two most vital pieces of zazen:

https://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/Fujita-Issho-Polishing-a-Tile.pdf

Apologies for going over 3 sentences

Gassho,
Sam
ST

Perhaps you'd get more answers by putting that book aside and picking up the Dogen instead, reading it and rereading it until you feel his words seeping into the marrow of your bones.
Gassho
Meitou
Sattoday lah

[Bion]

Thanks all, Sorry my question wasn't clear. I was asking how do we develop that contented (no gaining) mind for zazen. How do we deal with enlightenment expectations, wanting to improve situations or oneself and learn to love and accept everything as is

I ask this as I'm reading this book and it says "upright sitting" and "no gaining mind" are two most vital pieces of zazen:

https://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/Fujita-Issho-Polishing-a-Tile.pdf

Apologies for going over 3 sentences

Gassho,
Sam
ST

The answer remains the same Sam. While upright sitting and no gaining mind are essential to zazen, they are developed through the practice of zazen, not outside of it. Sitting long enough will teach us how to straighten the back, position the knees, relax the jaw and tongue and will also teach us that sitting is just sitting when one doesn’t expect to gain something from it. The second someone sits zazen with a mind focused on “achieving” they will find nothing but frustration and disappointment. It’s sort of like a lawyer becomes a better lawyer and learns the tricks of the trade while exercising as a lawyer in court, not outside of it. Or how a surgeon can only become a brilliant surgeon by spending time in the OR not outside of it.

[emoji1374] SatToday ( sorry again for exceeding the 3 sentences)

[Inshin]

Know that "no gaining mind" is vital to sitting Zazen, and Issho Fujita is a wonderful teacher, but he is also one of the "posture obsessives" that my recent talk was addressed to regarding his attitude toward proper posture and "upright sitting," as here in that book :



Baloney because it is too much, too obsessed about posture (and the book, by the way, also contains strange claims about a kind of pseudo-scientific something called "rythms emitted from the cranial sacrum system https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/ala...-craniosacral/)

As to sitting with "no gaining mind," see if my next talk on "Zen as Embodiment (2) - Buddha Sitting Buddha" helps (it will be posted in the next day or two), as it is about Zazen as a kind of visualization exercise, a kind of acting a role, in which we feel in the bones that we are embodying the peace, fulfilment and equanimity of a Buddha sitting under the Bodhi tree ... thus actually coming to feel the "no gaining mind, nothing more to attain" peace, fulfilment and equanimity that we are pretending to feel. See if that helps.

Gassho, J

STLah

I've noticed something in my sittings : if I trust the Shikantaza and approach it with no gaining mind the zazen posture happens by itself.
At the beginning I would assume what feels like the right posture and then just sit, after a while there are energy currents running through my body, the spine elongates itself, the quality of zazen changes slightly giving a way to "active stillness".
It's not any special state, and I wouldn't be able to create it intentionally, it just happens - but if I was to pay to much attention to the guidelines on how to achieve zazen posture it would be just thinking about zazen and not Zazen.

Gassho
Sat

[Eva]

Thanks all, Sorry my question wasn't clear. I was asking how do we develop that contented (no gaining) mind for zazen. How do we deal with enlightenment expectations, wanting to improve situations or oneself and learn to love and accept everything as is

I ask this as I'm reading this book and it says "upright sitting" and "no gaining mind" are two most vital pieces of zazen:

https://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/Fujita-Issho-Polishing-a-Tile.pdf

Apologies for going over 3 sentences

Gassho,
Sam
ST

Enlightenment and no-enlightenment - both; do not exist .

Sit with no mind that has to do "that" or not do "that", posture of no body put either "this" way or "that" way . let the moment happen to you , open and free , leave everything untouched .


Gassho,
eva
sattoday

[Jinyo]

The answer remains the same Sam. While upright sitting and no gaining mind are essential to zazen, they are developed through the practice of zazen, not outside of it. Sitting long enough will teach us how to straighten the back, position the knees, relax the jaw and tongue and will also teach us that sitting is just sitting when one doesn’t expect to gain something from it. The second someone sits zazen with a mind focused on “achieving” they will find nothing but frustration and disappointment. It’s sort of like a lawyer becomes a better lawyer and learns the tricks of the trade while exercising as a lawyer in court, not outside of it. Or how a surgeon can only become a brilliant surgeon by spending time in the OR not outside of it.

[emoji1374] SatToday ( sorry again for exceeding the 3 sentences)

Apologies if I misunderstand you Jake but I don't think I totally agree with what you say.

A great deal can be cultivated/learnt 'off the cushion' - though of course it is understood that Zazen encompasses all of our actions. Personally, I feel without a lot of work on our personal development Zazen will not deliver that contented/non seeking mind we are all searching for. I don't think we're being authentic if we tell ourselves this is not a motivation. A motivation implies a goal and even if we drop all thoughts of a goal while sitting that goal does exist.

Accepting things as they are takes preparatory work and that comes in many forms. I experience a group of people here who are very dedicated
to reading/thinking/questioning/doubting/learning/unlearning etc. Taking that example you gave - the lawyer/the doctor would be useless in court/the OR without years of preparatory work.

So I reckon - work hard off the cushion and relax when on it. Not two but one.

( sorry - ran on a bit)

Gassho

Jinyo

Sat today

[Meitou]

I love a good internet mystery; I was able to track the Griffith Foulk Tenzo Kyokun translation (which Jundo references in his talks) here: https://www.redcedarzen.org/resource...%20(Foulk).pdf

Gassho

Risho
-stlah

Brilliant work Sherlock! This morning I've also added Bernie Glassman's book as a companion to this reading

https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B003FCVFYK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Gassho
Meitou
sattoday lah

[Tairin]

Apologies if I misunderstand you Jake but I don't think I totally agree with what you say.

A great deal can be cultivated/learnt 'off the cushion'

Agreed and considering this thread is about Tenzo Kyokun it seems this shouldn’t need to be said. The writing in this book is all about bringing the same intention and mindset to life in the kitchen (off the cushion) and we do when we sit Zazen.

So I reckon - work hard off the cushion and relax when on it. Not two but one.

I think bring the same level of effort both on and off the cushion.

(One extra sentence). This is one of my personal favourites too.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[gaurdianaq]

Apologies if I misunderstand you Jake but I don't think I totally agree with what you say.

A great deal can be cultivated/learnt 'off the cushion' - though of course it is understood that Zazen encompasses all of our actions. Personally, I feel without a lot of work on our personal development Zazen will not deliver that contented/non seeking mind we are all searching for. I don't think we're being authentic if we tell ourselves this is not a motivation. A motivation implies a goal and even if we drop all thoughts of a goal while sitting that goal does exist.

Accepting things as they are takes preparatory work and that comes in many forms. I experience a group of people here who are very dedicated
to reading/thinking/questioning/doubting/learning/unlearning etc. Taking that example you gave - the lawyer/the doctor would be useless in court/the OR without years of preparatory work.

So I reckon - work hard off the cushion and relax when on it. Not two but one.

( sorry - ran on a bit)

Gassho

Jinyo

Sat today

Well said, I concur!


Evan,
Sat today

[Kokuu]

Brilliant work Sherlock! This morning I've also added Bernie Glassman's book as a companion to this reading

I enjoyed Bernie Glassman's take on the sutra which is very practical in terms of describing what his Zen Peacemaker's Order have undertaken in terms of engaged Buddhism and working with marginalised communities.

However, How to Cook Your Life remains an absolute classic. There is a good reason that so many of us keep going back to it.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Risho]

Apologies if I misunderstand you Jake but I don't think I totally agree with what you say.

A great deal can be cultivated/learnt 'off the cushion' - though of course it is understood that Zazen encompasses all of our actions. Personally, I feel without a lot of work on our personal development Zazen will not deliver that contented/non seeking mind we are all searching for. I don't think we're being authentic if we tell ourselves this is not a motivation. A motivation implies a goal and even if we drop all thoughts of a goal while sitting that goal does exist.

Accepting things as they are takes preparatory work and that comes in many forms. I experience a group of people here who are very dedicated
to reading/thinking/questioning/doubting/learning/unlearning etc. Taking that example you gave - the lawyer/the doctor would be useless in court/the OR without years of preparatory work.

So I reckon - work hard off the cushion and relax when on it. Not two but one.

( sorry - ran on a bit)

Gassho

Jinyo

Sat today

Darned right! This is absolutely right on; we do have to work on ourselves, and it can be hard! https://youtu.be/SF3x3aEtjLo

Gassho

Risho
-stlah

[Seikan]

...let the moment happen to you , open and free , leave everything untouched .

Eva,

This is beautiful. I'm going to write this down to reflect on later.

Gassho,
Rob

-stlah-


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Kokuu]

Sit with no mind that has to do "that" or not do "that", posture of no body put either "this" way or "that" way . let the moment happen to you , open and free , leave everything untouched .

This very much echoes what Dōgen says in Genjokoan:

Driving ourselves to practice and experience millions of things and phenomena is delusion. When millions of things and phenomena actively practice and experience ourselves, that is realization.

(Nishijima/Cross translation)

In other words, don't try to force life to be as you wish, but let it act through you.

Sam, I think it is a question of trust. In both Zazen and life off the cushion, we trust that life is complete and whole just as it is and that the right action will arise by itself. That doesn't mean we are completely passive and do not attend to things that need to attend to - getting the groceries, paying the bills, looking after our kids - but when we let go of needing to be in charge, in control, we let life unfold moment by moment rather than needing to force every step.

Apologies for (over) length.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-