Perfectionism and over-effort during zazen and in life

[Guest]

Hi all,

I have been lurking around for quite some time now, and haven't been practicing for that long (+/- 6 months). But I was wondering, how does one 'deal' with / accept perfectionism and over-effort during zazen and in life? And how does one return to 'being' - nothing special. How does one cultivate the quality of resting awareness (i.e, be aware) so that one doesn't get entangled in these qualities of mind, especially during stressful situations? How do you embrace these qualities and at the same time let them be and letting them go?


Metta,

Matthieuw

[Kokuu]

Hi Matthieuw

We cultivate the resting awareness by sitting and I find that spills over into the rest of life in time.

Then, off the cushion we do our best to behave ethically and with honesty and respect and accept that we will fall short on numerous occasions, including through striving too hard.

I like these words of Chinese monk Shitou Xiqian (700-790):

Let go of hundreds of years and relax completely.
Open your hands and walk, innocent.
Thousands of words, myriad interpretations,
Are only to free you from obstructions.
If you want to know the undying person in the hut,
Don't separate from this skin bag here and now.


Apologies for the extra sentences.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Risho]

these words of Chinese monk Shitou Xiqian (700-790):

Let go of hundreds of years and relax completely.
Open your hands and walk, innocent.
Thousands of words, myriad interpretations,
Are only to free you from obstructions.
If you want to know the undying person in the hut,
Don't separate from this skin bag here and now.


Apologies for the extra sentences.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

It was actually Shitou’s fault lol

gassho

risho

[Kokuu]

It was actually Shitou’s fault lol

It felt a bit bad to blame him!

[Tai Shi]

I’m at a local AA meeting! Just what I’ve needed! Talk at you soon
Gassho
sat/ lah
Tai Shi


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tomás ESP]

Hi all,

I have been lurking around for quite some time now, and haven't been practicing for that long (+/- 6 months). But I was wondering, how does one 'deal' with / accept perfectionism and over-effort during zazen and in life? And how does one return to 'being' - nothing special. How does one cultivate the quality of resting awareness (i.e, be aware) so that one doesn't get entangled in these qualities of mind, especially during stressful situations? How do you embrace these qualities and at the same time let them be and letting them go?


Metta,

Matthieuw

Hello Matthieu, I am also new around here! My advice would be to check the videos for new folks, the Buddha basics, bodhisattva basics, etc (if you haven't already done so). Those videos are teaching me quite a bit about the exact same questions that you have. I do not have the descriptive, contemplative and humor skills that Jundo has developed, so I can't really give straight answers to these questions. I'm sure other Sangha members can offer much help.

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

[Eva]

Hello Matthieu,

these are good questions!

When you sit, not even "letting be or letting go" is needed, everything that is, simply IS. No returning . No dealing . No effort .

Zazen helps to soften our very rigid views and understandings of "perfection" into broader, and eventually, into right view .
Just by allowing to open up, soften ... we can't force ourselves into right view; we need to trust the process and, like Jundo says, be gentle .

Gassho,
eva
sattoday and LAH /my apologies for extra sentences/

[Bion]

Hi all,

I have been lurking around for quite some time now, and haven't been practicing for that long (+/- 6 months). But I was wondering, how does one 'deal' with / accept perfectionism and over-effort during zazen and in life? And how does one return to 'being' - nothing special. How does one cultivate the quality of resting awareness (i.e, be aware) so that one doesn't get entangled in these qualities of mind, especially during stressful situations? How do you embrace these qualities and at the same time let them be and letting them go?


Metta,

Matthieuw

Perfectionism and an overachiever attitude don’t really apply to zazen as there is no good zazen, better zazen or best zazen. There is just the zazen you’re sitting now and it is perfectly complete as it is. Our only task is to experience that zazen. Off the zafu, we can be competitive at times, aiming for perfection at other times, but sitting teaches us a valuable lesson: everything is complete just the way it is and any notion of “should be”, “could be” “if only” is a fabrication of the mind, which we can simply acknowledge and let go. If you want and can make something better, that’s fine. But if you can’t, remember not to get caught up in your own fabricated desires.

Sorry about the extra lines!

[emoji1374] SatToday lah

[Risho]

1. perfectionism is the ego; just do what you should do; but it doesn’t mean go easy; do your best; although you should avoid the trap of perfectionism, there is a right way to do things; do not go gentle into that good night; do not let up; do not give up; really always do your best in this life

2. absolutely everyone of us who has been lucky enough to have this life is special; I think nothing special pertains to how the ego views special( how it calculates andmeasures), but we are all incredible, luminous beings to quote master yoda; that is why in zen there is so much focus on everyone, doing, being with everyone becsuse we are all so special but we lose that feeling when we forget we are all in this together; we truly are one family

gassho

risho
-stlah

[Jundo]

Hi all,

I have been lurking around for quite some time now, and haven't been practicing for that long (+/- 6 months). But I was wondering, how does one 'deal' with / accept perfectionism and over-effort during zazen and in life? And how does one return to 'being' - nothing special. How does one cultivate the quality of resting awareness (i.e, be aware) so that one doesn't get entangled in these qualities of mind, especially during stressful situations? How do you embrace these qualities and at the same time let them be and letting them go?


Metta,

Matthieuw

Hi Matthieuw,

Some very good perspectives and advice from the folks who commented above.

Life is rarely "perfect," so I advise folks to be sincere in their efforts but ... not too loose and not too tight ... like the famous teaching of Sona and the lute string:

[The Buddha said], "Sona, you were a musician and you used to play the lute. Tell me, Sona, did you produce good music when the lute string was well tuned, neither too tight nor too loose?"

"I was able to produce good music, Lord," replied Sona.

"What happened when the strings were too tightly wound up?"

"I could not produce any music, Lord," said Sona.

"What happened when the strings were too slack?"

"I could not produce any music at all, Lord," replied Sona

"Sona ... You have been straining too hard in your meditation. Do it in a relaxed way, but without being slack. Try it again and you will experience the good result."

For folks who are too obsessed, I advise them to intentionally add a tiny (not too extreme) imperfection to their practice on purpose each time (e.g., when we sew the Rakusu at the end, we intentionally take a little finger of dirt or ink and stain the cloth so that it is not "perfect," and just perfectly imperfect). When sitting Zazen, purposely make a funny face for a moment, or purposely put the incense slightly off center in the incense bowl. If you have watched the "We're all Beginners" series, the heart of Shikantaza Zazen and our practice is letting things be "just as we are," even as we keep trying, in this perfectly never perfect world. Here is one, the title pretty much says it all about accepting the weather as it is, yet carrying an umbrella too:

Zazen for Beginners (16) - Letting The Weather Be The Weather

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14880-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%2816%29

If you look closely at a stone or a flower, you will notice that there is never one that is "perfect" without some small flaw or scar, and yet each one is its own shining jewel, perfectly just what it is as that unique stone or flower. It does not need to do or be anything more to be that unique stone or flower. As a human being, we are the same. So, in your actions, be sincere, work hard, "do your best" to work for goals ... but through Shikantaza, learn to also give up all goals. The result is our practice of "goals without goals," leading us to work sincerely but without attachment to outcomes.

Zazen for Beginners (5) - The Race To Right Here

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14891-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%285%29

Please report back to us how it goes.

(Sorry for perfectly imperfectly running long).

Gassho, J

SatTodayLah

[Tai Shi]

Perfectionism isn’t bad. If one strives for the good, the true, and the beautiful one might be disappointed: on the other hand, it is this impetus which has kept me seeking.
Gassho
sat/ lah
Tai Shi


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sheeep44]

Thanks everyone for replying! This has been of so much help. Realizing that every moment is perfectly imperfect, accepting as it is, not judging and not resisting situations, while also being able to work toward goalless-goals.

Just the kind of advice I needed. I have been reminding myself of these aspects, watching the "beginners video's" and reading the buddhist-basics; that Dukkha comes from resisting or wishing a situation / the world to be X, while instead we should "go with the flow"; whilst still doing the things we need to do.

Thanks everyone.

Gassho

Matthieuw

[Tai Shi]

The problem is when we insist. The solution is when we ask. That is the nature of gratitude.
Gassho
sat / Tai Shi
Lah


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tai Shi]

I have to give credit to learning as father and husband. We learn best by doing. Remember most of you are younger, and life is what you are willing to surrender to.
Gassho
Deep bows
sat/ lah
Taishi


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Byrne]

Consistent effort. When your effort starts slacking, tighten it up.

Gassho

Sat Today