All is Burning

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  • Kokuu
    Dharma Transmitted Priest
    • Nov 2012
    • 7195

    All is Burning

    Dear sangha

    After Jundo's talk at this week's Zazenkai, noting that in early Buddhism, nibbana/nirvana referred to the extinction of fires, I just wanted to point towards The Fire Sermon (Adittapariyaya Sutta) which I imagine many of you already know or are aware of.

    Thus I heard. On one occasion the Blessed One was living at Gaya, at Gayasisa, together with a thousand bhikkhus. There he addressed the bhikkhus.

    "Bhikkhus, all is burning. And what is the all that is burning?

    "The eye is burning, forms are burning, eye-consciousness is burning, eye-contact is burning, also whatever is felt as pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant that arises with eye-contact for its indispensable condition, that too is burning. Burning with what? Burning with the fire of lust, with the fire of hate, with the fire of delusion. I say it is burning with birth, aging and death, with sorrows, with lamentations, with pains, with griefs, with despairs.

    "The ear is burning, sounds are burning...

    "The nose is burning, odors are burning...

    "The tongue is burning, flavors are burning...

    "The body is burning, tangibles are burning...

    "The mind is burning, ideas are burning, mind-consciousness is burning, mind-contact is burning, also whatever is felt as pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant that arises with mind-contact for its indispensable condition, that too is burning. Burning with what? Burning with the fire of lust, with the fire of hate, with the fire of delusion. I say it is burning with birth, aging and death, with sorrows, with lamentations, with pains, with griefs, with despairs.

    (translation by Bhikkhu Ñanamoli)

    So, here the Buddha is directly pointing to which fires are extinguished - the fire of lust, the fire of hate, the fire of delusion (the three poisons - greed, anger and ignorance) and so on.

    We can feel the heat of these fires as we are drawn to objects and people with desire or repel them with aversion and anger, and the coolness when these are not present.

    It is very much an early Buddhist presentation of samsara and nirvana, and we would usually speak about it differently in Zen terms, but I think that how the Buddha talks about the fires of samsara is very direct and understandable.

    (Sorry, ran longer than three lines)

    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday-
    Last edited by Jundo; 09-13-2020, 09:05 PM.
  • Seikan
    Member
    • Apr 2020
    • 710

    #2
    Originally posted by Kokuu
    Dear sangha

    After Jundo's talk at this week's Zazenkai, noting that in early Buddhism, nibbana/nirvana referred to the extinction of fires, I just wanted to point towards The Fire Sermon (Adittapariyaya Sutta) which I imagine many of you already know or are aware of.




    So, here the Buddha is directly pointing to which fires are extinguished - the fire of lust, with the fire of hate, with the fire of delusion (the three poisons - greed, anger and ignorance) and so on.

    We can feel the heat of these fires as we are drawn to objects and people with desire or repel them with aversion and anger, and the coolness when these are not present.

    It is very much an early Buddhist presentation of samsara and nirvana, and we would usually speak about it differently in Zen terms, but I think that how the Buddha talks about the fires of samsara is very direct and understandable.

    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday-
    Thank you Kokuu. I haven't read that in ages, so this was a wonderful chance to revisit it.

    Gassho,
    Rob

    -stlah-




    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
    聖簡 Seikan (Sacred Simplicity)

    Comment

    • Tai Shi
      Member
      • Oct 2014
      • 3497

      #3
      Yes this In the Fire Sermon is understandable and direct. Ancient Chinese curse, “May you live in interesting n times.” I’m being tested for Covid 19. Physical with blood work last Tuesday the best in 9 years. If I b have to fight it off I’m in the Best shape I could be in. I’ve had flu like symptoms for 3 days b so hospital says be tested. Quarantine for 3 to 5 may you line in interesting days hours moments.
      Gassho
      sat
      Ta Shi


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      Comment

      • Jakuden
        Member
        • Jun 2015
        • 6139

        #4
        Thank you brother! So "ancient" yet still so relevant. Our ancestors are always here with us.

        Gassho,
        Jakuden
        SatToday

        Comment

        • Risho
          Member
          • May 2010
          • 3178

          #5
          Thank you Kokuu.

          Tai that is good news about your health; stay well

          gassho

          risho
          -stlah
          Email: risho.treeleaf@gmail.com

          Comment

          • Naiko
            Member
            • Aug 2019
            • 854

            #6
            Thank you, Kokuu. I hope all will be well with you, Tai Shi.
            Gassho,
            Krista
            st

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            • Seikan
              Member
              • Apr 2020
              • 710

              #7
              Originally posted by Tai Shi
              Yes this In the Fire Sermon is understandable and direct. Ancient Chinese curse, “May you live in interesting n times.” I’m being tested for Covid 19. Physical with blood work last Tuesday the best in 9 years. If I b have to fight it off I’m in the Best shape I could be in. I’ve had flu like symptoms for 3 days b so hospital says be tested. Quarantine for 3 to 5 may you line in interesting days hours moments.
              Gassho
              sat
              Ta Shi


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
              Tai Shi,

              Metta to you and hoping that your test comes back negative. Glad to hear that all else is good!

              Gassho2

              Gassho,
              Rob

              -stlah-


              Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
              聖簡 Seikan (Sacred Simplicity)

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              • Tai Shi
                Member
                • Oct 2014
                • 3497

                #8
                All is Burning

                Thanks Rob! I encourage you in your way and being. Sounds like you are an okay guy! I want to buy a lay robe. All is Always burning. Seems worse now.
                Gassho
                sat
                Tai Shi
                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                Last edited by Tai Shi; 09-13-2020, 06:18 PM.

                Comment

                • Meitou
                  Member
                  • Feb 2017
                  • 1656

                  #9
                  I've never heard this Sutta before and it couldn't be more relevant than this present time when it feels like half the world is literally on fire.
                  Powerful stuff, thank you Kokuu

                  Gassho
                  Meitou
                  sattoday lah
                  命 Mei - life
                  島 Tou - island

                  Comment

                  • aprapti
                    Member
                    • Jun 2017
                    • 889

                    #10
                    thanks, kokuu.



                    aprapti

                    std/lah

                    hobo kore dojo / 歩歩是道場 / step, step, there is my place of practice

                    Aprāpti (अप्राप्ति) non-attainment

                    Comment

                    • Jundo
                      Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                      • Apr 2006
                      • 41958

                      #11
                      Lovely.

                      Perhaps one difference in the Mahayana and Zen from the traditional meaning of The Fire Sermon in South Asian Buddhism is summed up in something I read recently, by a scholar commenting on the change in focus by the great Mahayana Ancestor Nāgārjuna (in his great writing known as the MMK, or Mūlamadhyamakakārikā). Early Asian interpretations of Buddhism emphasized more that we need to completely cool and put out the fires of passion and desire within in order to realize nirvana as an escape from "samsara" (this ugly world):

                      Nāgārjuna’s most vivid [shift] is found in his radical non-dual equation of saṃsāra and nirvāṇa in MMK XXV:19: ‘Saṃsāra [this ordinary world and our ordinary mind] is nothing essentially different from nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa is nothing essentially different from saṃsāra.’ Saṃsāra and nirvāṇa have the same essential nature – no nature – like all things they share the same empty natures. ... Between the two, also, there is not the slightest difference whatsoever’ (MMK XXV:20). Hence, liberation is not overcoming the bondage of saṃsāra and achieving freedom in nirvāṇa; such a view is a dualistic reification of both the path and the goal of Buddhist practice. Saṃsāra and nirvāṇa are not-two. Nirvāṇa is not a separate realm for the practitioner to aspire to; it is right here in the midst of saṃsāra. The conventional is the only means to the ultimate, moreover, properly understood, there is no difference between them. This is a pivotal non-dual insight that, as we shall see, is mobilized in Zen thought and practice.
                      AND YET, this realization of samsara (this messy and sometimes beautiful and sometimes ugly world) as nirvana (a wholeness beyond all small human views and passions of beautiful and ugly, thus its own Big Beauty) ... CHANGES EVERYTHING!

                      So, we have fires burning within ... the fires of excess desire in lust by the eye, gluttony by the tongue, the fire of of anger in the heart ... and we seek in our practice to keep such fires small and constructive: A fire which is small is useful for cooking and heat, but if too large and unguided burns down the house! Desire for sex or eating keep us alive and the species going, but if in excess becomes addiction.

                      At the same time, the world is burning ... both literally in our forests, and with the anger and conflict, poverty and disease in society. Nagarjuna and the Zen masters teach us to burn along with it, accept the burning ...

                      ... even as we grab a bucket of water to cool what we can ... and combat the troubles of society, the conflict, poverty and disease as we can ...

                      ... even as we simultaneously cool our own hearts, and keep them balanced, while combating the fires in the world without.

                      That was the topic of this week's talk in Zazenkai that Kokuu mentions (about 56:30)



                      (Sorry for burning long with words)

                      Gassho, J

                      STLah
                      Last edited by Jundo; 09-13-2020, 11:16 PM.
                      ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                      Comment

                      • Washin
                        Senior Priest-in-Training
                        • Dec 2014
                        • 3876

                        #12


                        Gassho,
                        Washin
                        stlah
                        Kaidō (皆道) Every Way
                        Washin (和信) Harmony Trust
                        ----
                        I am a novice priest-in-training. Anything that I say must not be considered as teaching
                        and should be taken with a 'grain of salt'.

                        Comment

                        • Onka
                          Member
                          • May 2019
                          • 1576

                          #13
                          I've not heard of this before Kokuu. Thank you.
                          Gassho
                          Onka
                          Sat
                          穏 On (Calm)
                          火 Ka (Fires)
                          They/She.

                          Comment

                          • Meian
                            Member
                            • Apr 2015
                            • 1712

                            #14
                            Gassho2, meian st lh

                            Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
                            鏡道 |​ Kyodo (Meian)
                            "Mirror of the Way"
                            visiting Unsui, not a teacher

                            Comment

                            • Ryumon
                              Member
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 1830

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Tai Shi
                              Ancient Chinese curse, “May you live in interesting n times.”
                              Narrator: It's not Chinese.



                              :-)

                              Gassho,

                              Kirk

                              sat
                              I know nothing.

                              Comment

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