prolonged right leg numbness after zazenkai

[shikantazen]

Today sat a more intense zazenkai (I usually do 40 min for max of 3 consecutive sittings (before break) but this one is 50 min for max of 5 consecutive) and my right leg became numb after 5th consecutive sitting. Kinhin only slightly reduced numbness, so I ended the retreat but and the numbness is still there even after 7 hours. Any tips?

Gassho,
Sam
ST

[Kyoshin]

If you've been numb for 7 hours, you need to see a doctor. Even severe numbness should go away in a few minutes once you get up and start moving.

Gassho
Kyōshin
Satlah

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[Tai Shi]

I can easily sit 20 minutes. I sit with mind focused on robe verse, then my mind glides easily to the First stanza of Serenity Prayer which is universal, much that follows this stanza is Christian and I perfect the prayer by reciting it at a level which can apply to Buddhism as well as many religions. If you like you can leave out the word God. “Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, wisdom to know the difference.” This is a very humbling stanza. I have had very little humility in my life, so it is good that I say those verse to myself. Then I count my breaths in out, until I slip into Shikantaza; then it is my breath for 20 minutes or so. I usually do not count time but emerge quietly and naturally after 20 minutes or so. Time has felt like nothing.
Gassho
sat / lah
Tai Sho


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[Sekiyuu]

Notwithstanding what Kyoshin says, feel free to experiment with any and all positions until you find one that really works, including a using seiza bench or chair.

I used to sit in a kind of lazy-half-lotus that caused some numbness in the top leg. After long sits it just became painful, so I changed to a proper half-lotus, but it caused knee pain, so I now I sit Burmese.

Gassho,
Kenny
Sat Today

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[Jundo]

If you've been numb for 7 hours, you need to see a doctor. Even severe numbness should go away in a few minutes once you get up and start moving.

Gassho
Kyōshin
Satlah

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I agree, see a doctor! That is unusual. The "numbness" or "pins and needles" is from pressure on the sciatic nerve, in my understanding. It should not last that long.

https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/leg-numbness-causes#1

I avoid it by slightly shifting my weight from the left to right, right to left hip during a long sitting, taking the pressure off the nerve on each side, plus not sitting too far back on the zafu and loose pants. If this is a problem, consider a seiza bench or another alternative posture.

Let us know what the doctor says. I have not heard of a report like this of lasting numbness that I can recall.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Jundo]

I cannot go into details because of confidentiality, but I have twice had a case where someone developed an unusual pain and discovered a previously unknown condition when he went to see the doctor, explaining some other symptoms he was having in life in one case, and actually saving their life in one case (not to say that anything here is that dangerous!)

If anything rare and unusual happens, IT MUST BE CHECKED OUT!

See the doctor, please let me know what he says.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Tai Shi]

I must sit in a strait back chair because I have titanium hinged knees. I am very happy I can finally sit in a strait back chair.
Gassho
sat lah
Tai Shi


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[Tai Shi]

Because of my arthritis it has taken me more than seven years if you count meditation but I know that means only six years to sit.
Gassho
sat lah
Tai Shi


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[shikantazen]

I just met with a doctor on video call appointment. He took a look at the leg. He said this is due to "peroneal nerve" pinching or damage. I think it is the nerve behind the knee. My numbness and tingling is only from knee down to foot. more intense in the foot. He said this caused a complication called "foot drop" (difficulty lifting the front foot) and I notice it is making it difficult to walk down the stairs.

He said there is no treatment in western medicine and he hopes it will heal in a week. I asked what's the worst case healing time and he said if it doesn't heal quick then it can take very long as the nerve grows only 1mm each year. He suggested to try acupuncture. He said even if this heals, I am more prone to permanently damage this nerve in the future when I sit zazen. I asked about sitting zazen in a chair and he said that shouldn't affect this nerve

I am devastated with this, especially that I can't sit zazen normally again. I started sitting in 2013 and hurt my back in 2016 as I didn't know I have to alternate half lotus leg position. I had to stop sitting for few years. I resumed 2 years back and things are going great and now this. I have no interests in life. Only enlightenment. I practiced 9 years of different practices (mantra meditation) with no progress and frustrated and came to zen. This was my only hope and today's news was a big blow. I usually don't cry and i am in tears writing this. After a hard day's of zazenkai, I get this

Gassho,
Sam,
ST

[Jundo]

Oh, well, Sam ...

First, when you get past this Koan you will be enlightened ...

I am devastated with this, especially that I can't sit zazen normally again. ... I have no interests in life. Only enlightenment. I practiced 9 years of different practices (mantra meditation) with no progress and frustrated and came to zen. This was my only hope and today's news was a big blow. I usually don't cry and i am in tears writing this. ...

All zazen is "normal" when the mind drops all divisions, measures and preferences of "normal" vs. "not normal," good and bad. Please drop ideas of "progress" and all frustration from heart. Your "peroneal nerve" is a great teacher! There are no blows, there is no one right posture that is key. What are you looking for that is not right where one sits all along?

Now you need to cut back, change posture. Here is my prescription for now, until this is better, I insist.

November 15-16th Treeleaf Weekly Zazenkai: Lion's Pose with the Differently Abled

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?17370-November-15-16th-Treeleaf-Weekly-Zazenkai-Lion-s-Pose-with-the-Differently-Abled

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Jundo]

Here, Sam, some teachings posted elsewhere today, from the ancient Zen poem, Xin Xin Ming (Inscription on Trust in Mind), for you ...

The Great Way is not difficult
for those who have no preferences.
When love [likes] and hate [dislikes] are both absent
everything becomes clear and undisguised.
Make a hairbreadth difference, and Heaven and Earth are set apart;

...

If you wish to see the truth
then hold no opinions for or against anything.
To set up what you like against what you dislike
is the disease of the mind.

...

The Way is perfect like vast space
where nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess.
Indeed, it is due to our choosing to accept or reject
that we do not see the true nature of things.
Be serene in the Oneness [wholeness] of things
and such erroneous views will disappear by themselves.

...

When the mind exists undisturbed in the Way,
nothing in the world can offend,
and when a thing can no longer offend,
it ceases to exist in the old way.

...

The burdensome practice of judging
brings annoyance and weariness.
What benefit can be derived
from distinctions and separations?

...

If you wish to move in the One Way
do not dislike even the world of senses and ideas.
Indeed, to accept them fully
is identical with true Enlightenment.

...

The wise man strives to no goals
but the foolish man fetters himself.

...

If the mind makes no discriminations,
the ten thousand things
are as they are, of single essence.

...

To understand the mystery of this One-essence
is to be released from all entanglements.

https://terebess.hu/english/hsin.html

Sit as that!

Gassho, J

STLah

PS - Were you sitting full lotus? Half? Burmese? Something else?

[shikantazen]

Thanks Jundo. I am sitting burmese. Interestingly the doc himself is a vipassana practitioner who did zen in his initial days too. He was surprised this happened in burmese. The official term for my damage is peroneal neruopathy.

Gassho,
Sam
ST

[Kyoshin]

I wonder if a seiza bench would be a good solution. It might relieve pressure on the nerve (ask the doctor first!). Because they're designed to help position your hips and back correctly, I find them easier on my body than a regular chair.
Gassho
Kyōshin
Satlah

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[Onka]

You'll be OK Sam even if you feel ovewhelmed at the moment. Personally I couldn't care less about enlightenment, I just want to be at peace with whatever life throws at me moment to moment.
Gassho
Onka
Sat

[Inshin]

Metta to you.
May you be well.
May you realise the Way.

Gassho,
Sat