Practice

[A.J.]

The "obscurations" come from that self/other divide in which our mental processes separate the wholeness of suchness into me vs. you, me vs. everything not me, this and that, the things I link and the things I don't, etc., breaking the world into separate pieces and our subjective self-judgments and reactions to the separate pieces, with all the incumbent frictions and conflicts, desires and disappointments.

Some schools of Eastern thought and practice seek to complete get past the viewpoint of separation back to wholeness, consideration the separation purely delusion to be escaped. Zen teachings are rather different, by coming to see that the wholeness and division are actually "not two," just "two sides of a no sided coin," thus finding the divided and deluded world still the same, yet very different, when see through (see above comment about "flat tires" which are still flat and still a problem needing change, yet we all see that there are no separate tires, no flat or full in the overall "Fullness," and thus nothing lacking.

Gassho, J

STLah

All that truly exists is suchness... and yet divisions enter in... so where do they come from other than suchness?

Gassho,

Andrew,

Satlah

[Jundo]

It is what it is. That can surely be said of anything. I'm not sure if a formal Zazen practice is needed to realize that.

Gassho,

Oh, there is a world of difference between an ordinary, resigned, shoulder shrugging and giving up "it is what it is," and the celebration, joy, relief, wholeness and flowing of "Yippee, all is just what it is!"

Couple that with the profound rest and relief whence one realizes that there is not just a separate "self" to suffer, nor outside things to be suffered. It takes "two" to tussle and tangle with tension, and the dropping of "two-ness" is liberating.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Jundo]

All that truly exists is suchness... and yet divisions enter in... so where do they come from other than suchness?

Gassho,

The brain, between the ears, which divides the whole "soup" into individual flavors and ingredients of "carrots," "potatoes" and "peas." I believe they each exist in some way apart from our sense appraisal of them, but the sensing, imaging, naming, categorizing, judging, relating, liking and disliking seems to happen between the human ears, whereby the whole soup becomes the carrots we love, but the peas we hate.

Gassho, J

STLah

[A.J.]

The brain, between the ears, which divides the whole "soup" into individual flavors and ingredients of "carrots," "potatoes" and "peas." I believe they each exist in some way apart from our sense appraisal of them, but the sensing, imaging, naming, categorizing, judging, relating, liking and disliking seems to happen between the human ears, whereby the whole soup becomes the carrots we love, but the peas we hate.

Gassho, J

STLah

Wouldn't the activity between the ears be suchness as well?

Gassho,

Andrew,

Satlah

[A.J.]

Oh, there is a world of difference between an ordinary, resigned, shoulder shrugging and giving up "it is what it is," and the celebration, joy, relief, wholeness and flowing of "Yippee, all is just what it is!"

Couple that with the profound rest and relief whence one realizes that there is not just a separate "self" to suffer, nor outside things to be suffered. It takes "two" to tussle and tangle with tension, and the dropping of "two-ness" is liberating.

Gassho, J

STLah

It is what it is is a simple fact not in itself a reason for resignation or yippee. Resignation versus yippee is also duality.

Gassho,

Andrew,

Satlah

[Jundo]

Wouldn't the activity between the ears be suchness as well?

Gassho,

Andrew,

Satlah

Yes, it is. Almost all eastern philosophies/religions agree on that fact, and the main difference is that some eastern philosophies/religions completely reject the world of division as "delusion" which needs to be cleaned away to get back to "suchness," while others (Zen tends to this, although there are exceptions) celebrate the world of division when it is seen through as being also co-identical with the undivided. Then the world of division appears very different, although still the world of division.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Jundo]

It is what it is is a simple fact not in itself a reason for resignation or yippee. Resignation versus yippee is also duality.

Gassho,

Andrew,

Satlah

My teacher, Nishijima, observed that there is something subtly positive, joyous and celebratory about what Buddhism considers the realization of "awakening" (and likewise those other religions that speak of "Brahma" or the like) that renders the dropping away of division very different from just zero, meaningless, grey, nihilism. As Buddhists are fond of saying, we are neither the "eternalism" and reification of a godhead like "Brahma," but neither are we nihilists. Perhaps it just comes from the fact that, in Zazen, when the divisions and frictions fall away, the resulting feeling is positive, joyous and welcoming more than a bottomless pit of dark nothing etc.

Gassho, J

STLah

[A.J.]

Yes, it is. Almost all eastern philosophies/religions agree on that fact, and the main difference is that some eastern philosophies/religions completely reject the world of division as "delusion" which needs to be cleaned away to get back to "suchness," while others (Zen tends to this, although there are exceptions) celebrate the world of division when it is seen through as being also co-identical with the undivided. Then the world of division appears very different, although still the world of division.

Gassho, J

STLah

So then, if the world of division manifests suchness as much as non-division then there wouldn't be a duality between duality and non-duality, would there?

Gassho,

Andrew,

Satlah

[Kotei]

It is what it is. That can surely be said of anything. I'm not sure if a formal Zazen practice is needed to realize that.

I think that realising it intellectually and experiencing it directly are something completely different.
Gassho,
Kotei sat/lah today.

[A.J.]

My teacher, Nishijima, observed that there is something subtly positive, joyous and celebratory about what Buddhism considers the realization of "awakening" (and likewise those other religions that speak of "Brahma" or the like) that renders the dropping away of division very different from just zero, meaningless, grey, nihilism. As Buddhists are fond of saying, we are neither the "eternalism" and reification of a godhead like "Brahma," but neither are we nihilists. Perhaps it just comes from the fact that, in Zazen, when the divisions and frictions fall away, the resulting feeling is positive, joyous and welcoming more than a bottomless pit of dark nothing etc.

Gassho, J

STLah

I do enjoy that tinge of color that exists in the tradition. Nevertheless suchness doesn't imply nihilism or positive spin in itself. As a side note, I notice in portraits of Bodhidharma he always looks sad or angry. What's up with that?

Gassho,

Andrew,

Satlah

[A.J.]

I think that realising it intellectually and experiencing it directly are something completely different.
Gassho,
Kotei sat/lah today.

This also, is a standard answer that any religion might provide to advocate for their special claims. What you said runs the gamut from Mormons to Pentecostals to Scientologists so I'm not sure it's the best argument for the uniqueness in a Buddhist version of "it is what it is".

Gassho,

Andrew,

Satlah

[Jundo]

So then, if the world of division manifests suchness as much as non-division then there wouldn't be a duality between duality and non-duality, would there?

Ah, this is the great Koan that must be experienced, not merely encountered intellectually (as Kotei so rightly says). Master Dogen wrote,

The way is originally perfect and all-pervading. How could it be contingent on practice and realization? The true vehicle is self-sufficient. What need is there for special effort? Indeed, the whole body is free from dust. Who could believe in a means to brush it clean? It is never apart from this very place; what is the use of traveling around to practice? And yet, if there is a hairsbreadth deviation, it is like the gap between heaven and earth.

Suchness and division are not two ... and yet most people, in their ignorance, do not realize so and only encounter division. Our practice is to realize (grock, understand) and realize (make real in life through our living so) such fact. Only then is samsara, this world of division, the same as before, yet completely different.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Kotei]

This also, is a standard answer that any religion might provide to advocate for their special claims. What you said runs the gamut from Mormons to Pentecostals to Scientologists so I'm not sure it's the best argument for the uniqueness in a Buddhist version of "it is what it is".

Well, this is what I am experiencing here and there during Zazen and why I am practicing it,
'standard answer' or not.
It is not only true for religions, it is the difference between theory and practice,
you can read tons of books about carving a statue and completely fail when you try doing it.
edit: of course, there might be other ways (of practice) for experiencing the same.
Gassho,
Kotei sat/lah today.

[Jundo]

I do enjoy that tinge of color that exists in the tradition. Nevertheless suchness doesn't imply nihilism or positive spin in itself. As a side note, I notice in portraits of Bodhidharma he always looks sad or angry. What's up with that?

Well, the formula for fructose sugar in ice cream (C6-H12-O6) does not necessarily imply sweetness, but yet ... there it is, sweet on the tongue and not to be denied! I think that it is actually not that different from the "bliss" states you asked about on that other thread, but we just tend to avoid to run to the extremes of "bliss," and emphasize more an equanimity, peace and simple positive wholeness while living in this world.

As to Bodhidharma, I think it is just a case of "gruff old grandpa with a heart of gold." I know a lot of guys like that, and I once made this picture with a bit of photoshop, turning that frown upside down:

The Japanese, in their earthiness, have also made all kinds of Bodhidharma pictures through the centuries ... such as the many "Bodhidharma & the Geisha" pictures by Utagawa and others (still not quite smiling though! ) ...

In more recent times, I do like the Bodhidharma action figures, ready to clear the room of the unenlightened!

https://manofactionfigures.com/produ...ure-triad-toys

Gassho, J

STLah

[A.J.]

Well, this is what I am experiencing here and there during Zazen and why I am practicing it,
'standard answer' or not.
It is not only true for religions, it is the difference between theory and practice,
you can read tons of books about carving a statue and completely fail when you try doing it.
edit: of course, there might be other ways (of practice) for experiencing the same.
Gassho,
Kotei sat/lah today.

My point is that the intellectual versus experiential idea of understanding is dismissive more than useful and also used by many nefarious groups to smuggle in bizarre beliefs.

Gassho,

Andrew,

Satlah