How do I deal with this long pattern of behavior?

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  • Kaisho
    Member
    • Nov 2016
    • 190

    #16
    Originally posted by Jundo
    I will modify my usual declaration for Pagans (not knowing actually much about Paganism, so forgive me):

    If there is an Earth Goddess ... sit Zazen, live gently, chop wood and fetch watch.

    If there is no Earth Goddess ... sit Zazen, live gently, chop wood and fetch watch.

    Zen folks just sit as what is ... whatever is or isn't!
    Thank you for clarifying and the link to the teaching.

    Chelsea
    Satlah

    Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk

    Comment

    • Hokin
      Member
      • Oct 2019
      • 191

      #17
      Hello Tomas...I will only say something very brief about all this...something I hope can inspire you in your practice, especially because in the end IT IS ALL UP TO YOU! (And I am saying all this for personal experience, for I feel I have been going through- and sometimes still am going through- similar "spiritual ramblings" as you do!)

      This that follows is one of the basic teachings in this tradition and I also find it may help you a lot (at least this I hope!):

      THERE IS NO NEED TO GO ANYWHERE, NO NEED TO GET ANYTHING.
      JUST SIT (and if you are moving, then sit within your heart-mind).
      GIVE UP THE CHASE AND OPEN WHOLHEARTEDLY UP TO "THIS" (reality in front of you, forever), HERE AND NOW.
      MAKE NO MENTAL FABRICATIONS ABOUT "THIS", HERE AND NOW.
      "NIRVANA", HERE AND NOW: "THIS" IS ALREADY "IT" (your very practice/state of mind, here and now, makes up "nirvana" and/or "samsara").
      BASICALLY (and whatsoever you are dealin with): ALWAYS PRACTICE CONTEMTMENT, LOVING EMBRACE AND APPRECIATION...FOR REAL.

      I humbly hope this brief and simple points can really and positively inspre you.
      In the end you are already Buddha. Especially when you stop searching for Buddha, but practice being what you already are (call it whatever you like..)
      Hugs brother!
      Wish you all well...here you have plenty of friends ( I can surely speak for myself!)

      Gassho.
      Arya.
      ST&LAH.
      法 金
      (Dharma)(Metal)
      Wisdom Is Compassion & Compassion Is Wisdom.

      Comment

      • Jundo
        Treeleaf Founder and Priest
        • Apr 2006
        • 40992

        #18
        Originally posted by Jundo
        So long as a belief is non-violent, does not entail anger or other negative emotions, then it is no problem if your heart can find space for each. In fact, almost all Zen temple in Japan contain a Shinto shrine somewhere on the precincts, and I bet that Pagan beliefs and Shinto naturalism are not that unlike really.
        Here, by the way, is the Shinto Shrine at Sojiji, the Soto-shu Head Temple in Japan.

        Sojiji is an internationally opened temple for Zen practice located in the suburban area of Yokohama city, close to Tokyo bay.


        It is to Inari, a Shinto god typically depicted as a cunning fox ...



        Gassho, J

        STLah
        ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

        Comment

        • A.J.
          Member
          • Jul 2020
          • 176

          #19
          Perhaps the mental image of being part of a certain practice or the attachment to having a certain label is in part the culprit of dissatisfied floundering. Perhaps you can grasp at Buddhism and cling to Zen as you can with anything. All products of the human race have a place and therefore there is value in a variety of engagements... but without clinging.

          Kill the Buddha,

          Andrew,

          Satlah
          "Priest" here is rude. Not worth the time if you want depth in discussion because past a point he just goes into shut-down mode. No wonder he limits everyone to three sentences and is the most frequent offender of his own rule. Some kind of control thing. Won't be back.

          Comment

          • Tomás ESP
            Member
            • Aug 2020
            • 575

            #20
            Originally posted by Kokuu
            Tomás, just to let you know that we have plans to run a book study/practice group based around Toni Bernhard's book 'How to be Sick' in the not too distant future that might be of interest.
            That sounds great! I haven't read it and would love to participate in the book club at some point. Thank you for letting me know.

            Gassho,
            Sat

            Comment

            • Tomás ESP
              Member
              • Aug 2020
              • 575

              #21
              Originally posted by Hokin
              Hello Tomas...I will only say something very brief about all this...something I hope can inspire you in your practice, especially because in the end IT IS ALL UP TO YOU! (And I am saying all this for personal experience, for I feel I have been going through- and sometimes still am going through- similar "spiritual ramblings" as you do!)

              This that follows is one of the basic teachings in this tradition and I also find it may help you a lot (at least this I hope!):

              THERE IS NO NEED TO GO ANYWHERE, NO NEED TO GET ANYTHING.
              JUST SIT (and if you are moving, then sit within your heart-mind).
              GIVE UP THE CHASE AND OPEN WHOLHEARTEDLY UP TO "THIS" (reality in front of you, forever), HERE AND NOW.
              MAKE NO MENTAL FABRICATIONS ABOUT "THIS", HERE AND NOW.
              "NIRVANA", HERE AND NOW: "THIS" IS ALREADY "IT" (your very practice/state of mind, here and now, makes up "nirvana" and/or "samsara").
              BASICALLY (and whatsoever you are dealin with): ALWAYS PRACTICE CONTEMTMENT, LOVING EMBRACE AND APPRECIATION...FOR REAL.

              I humbly hope this brief and simple points can really and positively inspre you.
              In the end you are already Buddha. Especially when you stop searching for Buddha, but practice being what you already are (call it whatever you like..)
              Hugs brother!
              Wish you all well...here you have plenty of friends ( I can surely speak for myself!)

              Gassho.
              Arya.
              ST&LAH.
              Thank you very much Hokin. Everything that you have shared rings true to my heart and inspires me deeply. I have felt very welcome so far, so I appreciate your good wishes. Wish you well too.

              Gassho,
              Sat

              Comment

              • Tomás ESP
                Member
                • Aug 2020
                • 575

                #22
                Originally posted by A.J.
                Perhaps the mental image of being part of a certain practice or the attachment to having a certain label is in part the culprit of dissatisfied floundering. Perhaps you can grasp at Buddhism and cling to Zen as you can with anything. All products of the human race have a place and therefore there is value in a variety of engagements... but without clinging.

                Kill the Buddha,

                Andrew,

                Satlah
                I totally agree, thank you very much for sharing Andrew!

                Comment

                • Inshin
                  Member
                  • Jul 2020
                  • 557

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Hokin
                  Hello Tomas...I will only say something very brief about all this...something I hope can inspire you in your practice, especially because in the end IT IS ALL UP TO YOU! (And I am saying all this for personal experience, for I feel I have been going through- and sometimes still am going through- similar "spiritual ramblings" as you do!)

                  This that follows is one of the basic teachings in this tradition and I also find it may help you a lot (at least this I hope!):

                  THERE IS NO NEED TO GO ANYWHERE, NO NEED TO GET ANYTHING.
                  JUST SIT (and if you are moving, then sit within your heart-mind).
                  GIVE UP THE CHASE AND OPEN WHOLHEARTEDLY UP TO "THIS" (reality in front of you, forever), HERE AND NOW.
                  MAKE NO MENTAL FABRICATIONS ABOUT "THIS", HERE AND NOW.
                  "NIRVANA", HERE AND NOW: "THIS" IS ALREADY "IT" (your very practice/state of mind, here and now, makes up "nirvana" and/or "samsara").
                  BASICALLY (and whatsoever you are dealin with): ALWAYS PRACTICE CONTEMTMENT, LOVING EMBRACE AND APPRECIATION...FOR REAL.

                  I humbly hope this brief and simple points can really and positively inspre you.
                  In the end you are already Buddha. Especially when you stop searching for Buddha, but practice being what you already are (call it whatever you like..)
                  Hugs brother!
                  Wish you all well...here you have plenty of friends ( I can surely speak for myself!)

                  Gassho.
                  Arya.
                  ST&LAH.
                  Ditto

                  "Dharma gates are boundless; I vow to enter them all." - so I study and learn and believe that Dharma can be even entered through Jesus' heart.
                  For me personally I chose to stick with Zen because it is only through sitting zazen that I've realised that meditation, Buddhism is not a "spiritual fix" and that following the Way means to open up to the suffering, boredom and all the things we don't want.

                  "Water in an Old Temple

                  Leaking from the rock
                  in an old temple,
                  water barely trickles –
                  the voice
                  of the lingering dharma."
                  Otagaki Rengetsu

                  Gassho
                  Sat

                  Comment

                  • A.J.
                    Member
                    • Jul 2020
                    • 176

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Tomás Sard
                    I totally agree, thank you very much for sharing Andrew!
                    No worries,
                    Zen teachings have at times addressed the tendency for Zen itself to become attachment to form. I think it is fairly common that Buddhism can become "me" and "mine" for people though the unique aspect of the dharma, that isn't found everywhere, is the capacity to critique this construction of the religious ego. I don't literally believe in sin (other than perhaps in the ancient Greek sense of "missing the mark") but I'll say, as a figure of speech: the sins that have taken a spiritual garb are the most intractable.

                    Gassho,

                    Andrew,

                    Satlah
                    "Priest" here is rude. Not worth the time if you want depth in discussion because past a point he just goes into shut-down mode. No wonder he limits everyone to three sentences and is the most frequent offender of his own rule. Some kind of control thing. Won't be back.

                    Comment

                    • Kokuu
                      Dharma Transmitted Priest
                      • Nov 2012
                      • 6928

                      #25
                      Zen teachings have at times addressed the tendency for Zen itself to become attachment to form. I think it is fairly common that Buddhism can become "me" and "mine" for people though the unique aspect of the dharma, that isn't found everywhere, is the capacity to critique this construction of the religious ego. I don't literally believe in sin (other than perhaps in the ancient Greek sense of "missing the mark") but I'll say, as a figure of speech: the sins that have taken a spiritual garb are the most intractable.
                      I think we have to be a little careful here about what is considered "attachment to form".

                      For example, if you were in a Karate dōjō, you would be taught forms in a certain way which are almost certainly taught differently in, say, a Kung Fu temple. That does not mean to say that the form taught in either place is right or better, but it is teaching the appropriate form for the place it is taught. This applies to matters such as how to tie a garment and belt likewise even if that is seen as of lesser importance.

                      Correcting someone on their form would not in my opinion, be attachment, but more teaching the correct form in the correct place.

                      Here we find freedom through adherence to form although, at the end of the day, anyone is free to either follow what is taught here or not.


                      All products of the human race have a place and therefore there is value in a variety of engagements... but without clinging.
                      Indeed, but to continue the metaphor, when in a Karate dōjō you practice the correct forms for that place, and when in a Kung Fu temple, you so likewise.


                      I am not saying that you are doing this, Andrew, but I have seen people respond to being corrected on their form and practice by saying that it is just "attachment to form" and refusal to see beyond the tradition but that seems to me to just be a way of ego defending itself as knowing better rather than seeing it as teaching the correct form for the place it is taught.


                      Gassho
                      Kokuu
                      -sattoday/lah-
                      Last edited by Kokuu; 08-21-2020, 11:04 AM.

                      Comment

                      • Tomás ESP
                        Member
                        • Aug 2020
                        • 575

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Jundo
                        Best just to go to the next shiny thing ... and then the next next thing that may finally have the answer ... unless you stay.

                        Here's the next thing you should study:

                        SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: WHAT's NEXT!?!
                        Almost each week someone asks me, "What comes next in my practice? How do I deepen it? What should I do now? What book should I read with all the secrets? I feel like something is still missing and that I must do more." But how can I respond to such a question when the very heart of this Path is learning to live and


                        Gassho, J

                        STLah
                        This was on point Jundo, thank you very much for sharing. I am sure I will come back to it.
                        Gassho,

                        Sat

                        Comment

                        • Inshin
                          Member
                          • Jul 2020
                          • 557

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Kokuu
                          I think we have to be a little careful here about what is considered "attachment to form".

                          For example, if you were in a Karate dōjō, you would be taught forms in a certain way which are almost certainly taught differently in, say, a Kung Fu temple. That does not mean to say that the form taught in either place is right or better, but it is teaching the appropriate form for the place it is taught. This applies to matters such as how to tie a garment and belt likewise even if that is seen as of lesser importance.

                          Correcting someone on their form would not in my opinion, be attachment, but more teaching the correct form in the correct place.

                          Here we find freedom through adherence to form although, at the end of the day, anyone is free to either follow what is taught here or not.




                          Indeed, but to continue the metaphor, when in a Karate dōjō you practice the correct forms for that place, and when in a Kung Fu temple, you so likewise.


                          I am not saying that you are doing this, Andrew, but I have seen people respond to being corrected on their form and practice by saying that it is just "attachment to form" and refusal to see beyond the tradition but that seems to me to just be a way of ego defending itself as knowing better rather than seeing it as teaching the correct form for the place it is taught.


                          Gassho
                          Kokuu
                          -sattoday/lah-
                          That is a very interesting metaphor Kokkuu! (I always wanted to be a Ninja Do you think that what is happening now with Buddhism and the popularity of mindfulness movement in the West is like "spiritual MMA", a sort of pick and mix?
                          Gassho
                          Sat

                          Comment

                          • Nengei
                            Member
                            • Dec 2016
                            • 1658

                            #28
                            I have a tendency to take a strong interest in just about everything that passes by, and it has gotten me into no small amount of mental trouble. I want to see it all, hear it all, do it all. It has taken me decades to realize that choosing and putting myself into a path to follow (or a career, or a field of study, or an art form, or a physical activity) means I can take a passing interest in other things, but if I want to excel at/dwell in a path, and if I want to find peace for myself, it can't be more than that. I paint and I am learning to paint realistic portraits and figure, because that is what I want to do with my art. I like expressionism, and there is an attraction to learning to do it, but spending time on that does not help me become a better portrait artist. Time I spend on that would be time I am not spending on my chosen path. Sometimes I am frustrated by my chosen path and it seems like I am going nowhere with it. But that is where growth lies, in maintaining consistency through the days when what I am doing is not fun. I am easily distracted by the other things going by, and I now recognize that as my lifelong habit of letting myself get distracted from what I mean to to be doing. For myself, I can glance, but then I need to remember, and turn back in the direction I mean to go.

                            Gassho,
                            然芸 Nengei
                            Sat today. LAH.
                            遜道念芸 Sondō Nengei (he/him)

                            Please excuse any indication that I am trying to teach anything. I am a priest in training and have no qualifications or credentials to teach Zen practice or the Dharma.

                            Comment

                            • Tairin
                              Member
                              • Feb 2016
                              • 2921

                              #29
                              Zen is not some kind of excitement, but concentration on our usual everyday routine.” – Shunryu Suzuki “Zen Mind, Beginners Mind”

                              When I first read this phrase I was startled with self recognition. As much as anything this recognition has helped me stop the search and settle into practice.


                              Tairin
                              Sat today and lah
                              Last edited by Tairin; 08-21-2020, 03:34 PM. Reason: Missing word
                              泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

                              Comment

                              • Jundo
                                Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                                • Apr 2006
                                • 40992

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Kokuu
                                I think we have to be a little careful here about what is considered "attachment to form".

                                For example, if you were in a Karate dōjō, you would be taught forms in a certain way which are almost certainly taught differently in, say, a Kung Fu temple. That does not mean to say that the form taught in either place is right or better, but it is teaching the appropriate form for the place it is taught. This applies to matters such as how to tie a garment and belt likewise even if that is seen as of lesser importance.

                                Correcting someone on their form would not in my opinion, be attachment, but more teaching the correct form in the correct place.

                                Here we find freedom through adherence to form although, at the end of the day, anyone is free to either follow what is taught here or not.




                                Indeed, but to continue the metaphor, when in a Karate dōjō you practice the correct forms for that place, and when in a Kung Fu temple, you so likewise.


                                I am not saying that you are doing this, Andrew, but I have seen people respond to being corrected on their form and practice by saying that it is just "attachment to form" and refusal to see beyond the tradition but that seems to me to just be a way of ego defending itself as knowing better rather than seeing it as teaching the correct form for the place it is taught.


                                Gassho
                                Kokuu
                                -sattoday/lah-
                                Well spoken.

                                Gassho, J

                                STLah
                                ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                                Comment

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