Buddhist and Borderline.

Re: Buddhist and Borderline.

I really don't think I can make someone understand what it's like. It's a bit like PTSD - you overreact to minor slights with massive retaliations...there's an unrelenting sense of emptiness, and a feeling of being monstrous beyond what any rational review of one's actions would indicate.

I don't know anyone who'd want to sign on for that, is the thing. The negatives so greatly overwhelm the positives. Maybe metta practice will help.

Chet

Re: Buddhist and Borderline.

Wow, what an interesting man. Thanks for the recommendation, Jundo.

[Jundo]

Re: Buddhist and Borderline.

... sometimes this place descends too easily into a kittens and rainbows "Ain't everything wonderful" vibe, and some folks may forget it's not so la-dee-da for some of us...

Well, sometimes we kill the cat too. And as for rainbows ...

Disappearing
snow on mountain peak
unfurls a rainbow

Haiku by Soen Nakagawa Roshi (a wonderful Zen teacher, and teacher of teachers, who also suffered from some form of very serious personality disorder, and was a recluse, after a head injury late in life. Read more here):
http://books.google.com/books?id=-kut6g ... &ct=result

... and more detailed biography is here ... a good book on a great Rinzai teacher ...

http://www.amazon.com/Endless-Vow-Path- ... 1570621624

[Kent]

Re: Buddhist and Borderline.

Chet, i was touched by your honesty and courage in sharing what i consider very personal information. As Stephanie so kindly pointed out," we do like you here". Gassho Kent

[ScottyDoo]

Re: Buddhist and Borderline.

It takes a lot of patience, understanding and communication in my marriage...and sometimes that doesn't work.

My wife has Bipolar II, and I have ADD. It's a real struggle at times. We didn't know about her Bipolar when we first started dating, though looking back, plenty of signs were there. We finally have a decent combo of meds for her and that has helped alot, though I have not been medicated, and am looking into it. I always just assumed that I was simply an easily distracted person, but it goes beyond just that and my doctor agrees and I have an appointment with a psychiatrist on Monday to talk about it and to see about meds for me.

Zazen has been a real struggle for me as I have this constant need (so my mind tells me) to be moving or fidgeting, bouncing a leg, playing with something in my hands, etc, etc. With that, it's REALLY hard to sit still for long and even short periods of time. I figure however that it just means I need to work smarter to do my best to work with it and maybe even one day master it.

EDIT: If someone does not care enough to understand and support, then it will never work. This is what I've found in my marriage.

Re: Buddhist and Borderline.

Well, it might not have been enough to save the relationship or make it easy, but I think by being clear and upfront, you lived up to the demands of personal responsibility. That's really all you can do!

I think regardless of your personal issues, there has to be a point where you stop apologizing for who you are. I can't promise anyone entering a relationship with me of any description that they won't get burned. I can do my best to be considerate, compassionate, and honest, but I can't take responsibility for someone else beyond that. Sometimes two people just create a nasty situation together, and sometimes there's no one to blame. And so many people have so many distorted ideas about what relationships can provide, that it's impossible for anyone to live up to that.

If you're upfront about anticipating the issues your behavior patterns might present to a relationship, and communicate this to the other person, you're already doing better than about 85% of men, whose main motivation for what to say to someone they find attractive seems to be, "What things can I say that will be the most likely to get me in this girl's (or man's, depending) bed? And keep me there, if it's good?" :lol:

Re: Buddhist and Borderline.

Thanks Steph!

I have to quibble with one little thing though. I was totally upfront with Hannah about my ADHD and BPD. She still felt betrayed and could not really fathom what she was in for.

I know I'm getting better, but I don't know if that's good enough to make a relationship work.

Chet

*edited to add:*

Thanks for the reassurance, Jundo!

Re: Buddhist and Borderline.

Chet,

If you've noticed, we like you here. And I can tell you from personal experience that Treeleaf has been tolerant, compassionate, and forgiving of my crazy, and no doubt it will be of yours too :wink:

I admire the guts with which you've shared about your diagnosis and experiences here. One doesn't often see people rush to claim the borderline label in mixed company, as stigmatized and misunderstood as it is.

As for your being in relationships and being here, I think you've already hit on the key thing, which is honesty. If you explain to people some of the obstacles you face in the struggle to build lasting relationships, that is the primary thing. Then when you hit a rough patch there is a mutual awareness of what is going on and thus a better chance of weathering it with some measure of patience and understanding.

I think as long as you are upfront with people what your deal is, and are sincere about the effort you are or are not making to deal with it yourself, you have met your moral obligation when it comes to anticipating and addressing some of the difficulty you encounter with others. When people realize you're not just being a brat and not just being difficult because you don't care, but are really struggling with some sort of dark twist in your psyche, I think it changes the context. People want to work with you more, instead of fight you.

I think you are a valuable addition to the community, not just because now I'm not the only person in the crazy section :wink: , but seriously, sometimes this place descends too easily into a kittens and rainbows "Ain't everything wonderful" vibe, and some folks may forget it's not so la-dee-da for some of us...

regards,

Stephanie

[Jundo]

Re: Buddhist and Borderline.

Hi Chet,

Now that you have explained it so well, we can all be very tolerant if we see little signs pop up now and then. So, don't give much worry to being "kicked out" of this Sangha.

You have an interesting view of how our mind forms and reforms our many views of reality. Make that your own "Borderline Koan".

Gassho, Jundo

Re: Buddhist and Borderline.

I have an internet friend who's also Borderline. She and I had a long chat this afternoon and it was helpful just to know that someone else knows what it's like to feel like this.

The big thing is, it affects every part of my life. My relationships, my work life, my family life, etc. I have crazy outburst over ridiculous things and it seems totally rational at the time. Zazen hasn't really helped this (nor hurt it, truthfully).

I wish I knew of some way to increase my distress tolerance. I guess I'm bringing it up here because it's probably this quality of labile moods and crazy outbursts that have kept me from joining a Sangha - and even now, I'm half afraid I'm going to say or do something that will get me kicked out of the community. Willpower has not been enough, because it seems like reality itself has changed and my actions seem totally justified to me at the time.

My friend and I sort of agreed that borderlines have no business in relationships (although we end up in them anyway) and she isolates as well. I want to become part of a sangha, but I'm really terrified of being rejected by a sangha. Well, I guess I'm sort of afraid of rejection in general, and it's not an irrational fear because I know my behavior engenders such rejection.

I don't know how to continue as a person with these problems. Everything in my life is constantly in jeopardy because of this.

Chet

Re: Buddhist and Borderline.

Honestly, I thought hard about this, but I don't think there are any "parts" of me that I hate. There's parts that are annoying, and that make me feel ashamed, and parts that are really ugly, but I don't hate any of them.

http://www.rhapsody.com/goto?rcid=tra.3165669

Mostly I'm scattered with castaway matter
The usual stuff that you see
Hours and hours of televised time
And occasional pieces of me

Once I was something but I can't remember
Whatever that something should be
Hours and hours of televised wind
And occasional pieces of me

There's palm trees and milky machine guns
And sunsets that melt like a gem in the sea
Hours and hours of televised wind
And occasional pieces of me

Once I was something but I can't remember
Whatever that something should be
Hours and hours of televised time
And occasional pieces of me

[ScottyDoo]

Re: Buddhist and Borderline.

Though she doesn't practice Buddhism, my wife experiences many of the same situations.

She is a diagnosed Bipolar II, and although not as severe as Bipolar I, she has her moments.

They affect her work, her life, her relationships, and although medication helps, the demons still break free.

I have many issues I have yet to accept about myself, and you could say that I hate them as well.

I'm lazy, I don't follow through on tasks or promises, I am distracted easily. To name a few.

Are there parts of yourself that you absolutely hate?

I throw tantrums. I am preemptively negative, or even preemptively attacking. I distrust myself and therefore am prone to isolation.

I sit, and I experience this sort of tranquility...but I cannot translate it into my life.

I whine. I bitch and moan. I throw tantrums at work and shock people.

I don't like it. I don't know how to fix it.