Pitfalls of Shikantaza practice

[vanbui]

I think I don’t really understand the distinction you are making. The definitions that Meitou posted of quietism don’t feel like a trap I would be at risk of falling into while sitting Shikantaza. Perhaps I am fortunate (or deluded).

I think this passage from the book "The Circle of the Way" is a good summary of the pitfalls of both Koan introspection and Shikantaza.

The rivalry between mozhao chan and kanhua chan persists to this day. Many of us who have practiced both can tell you that the methodologies each have strengths and weaknesses. Choosing which is better is an individual matter. Practitioners of both do experience the actualization of enlightenment, and likewise, practitioners of both do run into difficulties. The goal-oriented practice of solving koans can cause some to lose sight of Mazu’s ordinary-mind teachings (never mind that “ordinary mind” is itself a koan). Silent illumination, when not understood, can become nothing but a stress-reduction technique. Put another way, a one-sided devotion to koan contemplation “can become arid, intellectual, and disconnected from reality,” writes James Ford. “And a one-sided attachment to a just-sitting practice can slip into torpidity, into a mere quietism.”31

This passage from Taigen Dan Leighton's book is also very revealing.

Dahui’s criticism of silent illumination was partly valid, based on the legitimate danger of practitioners misunderstanding this approach as quietistic or passive. Dahui’s critique was echoed centuries later by Japanese Rinzai critics of just sitting, such as Hakuin in the eighteenth century. Just sitting can indeed sometimes degenerate into dull attachment to inner bliss states, with no responsiveness to the suffering of the surrounding world.

Gassho
Van


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[Tairin]

Thank you Van. That helps.

I think this is why having an experienced teacher/guide helps this practice and hopefully avoiding the pitfalls.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Jundo]

... Naturally, how do you cultivate deep trust? I believe you have mentioned this in one of your previous teachings, and I did try to sit as you have taught, but my discriminating mind and thoughts always make me doubt or forget the completeness of zazen. Perhaps I need to sit longer.

I usually say a couple of things about this. First, Zazen ... and all the world really ... is just what it is, but the judgement about the situation is right between your ears. It is you who judges some situation good or bad, complete or incomplete, but the situation is just the situation. Same for Zazen. If you can come to feel it complete, whole and with the other characteristics I describe, it is. If you feel it incomplete and lacking, it is. Otherwise, Zazen is just Zazen. Who judges it incomplete or that the world is not whole but you? I call it thus a "non-self fulfilling prophesy."

Zazen has some similarity to Tibetan esoteric visualization practices in which the meditator envisions themself as a Buddha, so comes to embody the characteristics of that Buddha. Likewise, Zazen. A friend of mine who is a Broadway actor told me that he assumes the role of Hamlet until he becomes Hamlet. So, I recommend what I call "non-method" acting ... act the role of someone sitting with total trust in the completeness and wholeness of sitting, until the role takes one over. If you instead play somebody who feels that Zazen is lacking, then it is lacking.

Shikantaza as NON-Method NON-Acting

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?16326-Shikantaza-as-NON-Method-NON-Acting

We sit vibrantly, with sincerity and dedication ... yet there is nothing to attain. We sit, letting thoughts go, but neither do we run away from thoughts. We come to see the Light of clarity and wholeness which shines through both thoughts and no thoughts. We sit in radical equanimity so equanimious that we even feel equanimity about those times of sitting when we do not feel equanimious. We trust. We sit.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[vanbui]

I usually say a couple of things about this. First, Zazen ... and all the world really ... is just what it is, but the judgement about the situation is right between your ears. It is you who judges some situation good or bad, complete or incomplete, but the situation is just the situation. Same for Zazen. If you can come to feel it complete, whole and with the other characteristics I describe, it is. If you feel it incomplete and lacking, it is. Otherwise, Zazen is just Zazen. Who judges it incomplete or that the world is not whole but you? I call it thus a "non-self fulfilling prophesy."

Zazen has some similarity to Tibetan esoteric visualization practices in which the meditator envisions themself as a Buddha, so comes to embody the characteristics of that Buddha. Likewise, Zazen. A friend of mine who is a Broadway actor told me that he assumes the role of Hamlet until he becomes Hamlet. So, I recommend what I call "non-method" acting ... act the role of someone sitting with total trust in the completeness and wholeness of sitting, until the role takes one over. If you instead play somebody who feels that Zazen is lacking, then it is lacking.

Shikantaza as NON-Method NON-Acting

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?16326-Shikantaza-as-NON-Method-NON-Acting

We sit vibrantly, with sincerity and dedication ... yet there is nothing to attain. We sit, letting thoughts go, but neither do we run away from thoughts. We come to see the Light of clarity and wholeness which shines through both thoughts and no thoughts. We sit in radical equanimity so equanimious that we even feel equanimity about those times of sitting when we do not feel equanimious. We trust. We sit.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

Many thanks for this teaching Jundo.

Deep bows
Gassho
Van
Satlah

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[Tai Shi]

Thank you for your teaching, Jundo
Tai Shi
sat/ lah
Gassho


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[adahee]

Thank you for this, Jundo.
I have a lot to learn.

Gassho,
steve
sat today

[Hokin]

Hello everybody.
I want to thank you all for your practice...for your inspiring discussion...and for your deeply helpful teachings and reflexions!
That said I now can but bow deeply to you all for being this beautiful sangha!



Have a nice "already nice" and complete "already complete" day...everyday!
And moreover...never forget to share THIS...beautiful Practice-Realization with all suffering beings (we are one and always together!)

Gassho.
Arya.
ST&LAH.

[Jakuden]

Gratitude for this thread and all the treasures within [emoji120]

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday


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[Jakugan]

Thank you for the teaching Jundo.


Jakugan.
St

[serenewolf]

Mental cleaning. When i began my practice i found it to quiet and calm me however it wasnt doing more then that. I suffered depression and it wasnt getting better even though i could sit to calm. I discovered that one can use the calm state to face pain. Looking back through your history for emotional pain and trauma, and then being able to observe and process it with a clear and calm mind. This is how i was able to defeat my depression completely after 20 years of suffering with it. Our minds never let go of trauma normally, it just gets shoved into a back corner of our subconcious we are not aware of. It does affect us in stress and other ways even if we dont realize it. I have also found that a lot of what happens when we sit is subconcious cleaning. Our brains take time to process a lot of our daily experiences that it doesnt usually have the time to do. This is just my experience though. Maybe its different for others. As i said i was able to use meditation to deal with past trauma, but mostly because i was already facing it on a daily basis. Perhaps some traumas are better left behind for some people.
Gassho
David
Sat/lah

[Jishin]

Hi,

Within the concept of not 1, not 2:

A - Western thought leans towards 2.

B - Eastern though leans towards 1 but recognizes that we live in the world 2.

Shikantaza can be harmful to those who have trouble with boundaries and living close to 1 to begin with or completely in 1 such as the case of psychosis.

Shikantaza is definitely not for everyone and this point is overlooked by teachers sometimes. I have not seen this problem present with Jundo as the captain of our international ship for very long.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

[Rich]

The society has trained us to always be doing, wanting, acquiring. Meditation provides a relief from that. But life is dynamic and we don’t know what will happen next. There could be danger. So we need to maintain some awareness and alertness. Just sitting we always come back to that

Sat

[Jishin]

Some go on the boat and the waters may be calm or rough but the destination is arrived at on time. Some may stay out in the sea too long but eventually land. On the flip side, some get off the boat to soon to experience the beauty of the overall trip. It can be a problem for those that stay out in the sea for too long as shikantaza may get in the way of a safe return. There are cases of this. These people should not travel at all.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

[Tai Shi]

Yes, I must keep this short-- Shikataza brought me to the brink of change-- change came from change of attitude, I stepped ashore of my own accord, no one, NOT one Buddha, I had killed Buddha (figurativly speaking) as I stepped ashore. Mine was subtance change. "Go figure."
Tai Shi
sat/ lah
Gassho