A good biography on Ikkyu Sojun?

[Hoseki]

Hi folks,


I was wondering if anyone knew of a good biography of Ikkyu Sojun. I suspect knowledge might be sparse so if it’s part of a collection of his peons that would be fine. I would like to read those as well.

Thanks!

Gassho
Hoseki
Sattoday/lah


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[aprapti]

hi Hoseki,

i have : Jon Carter Covell, Unraveling Zen's red thread; Ikkyu's controversial way. ISBN 0-930878-19-1.
It's rather old, from 1980, but Ikkyu is quite old too, is not he?



aprapti

std

[Kokuu]

Hi Hoseki

From the look of things, Aprapti's book is one of very few available on the subject. Most books of his poetry will probably feature something in the way of biography. I only have Crow With No Mouth which has ten pages of Preface and Foreword on Ikkyu and his life.

John Steven's book Extraordinary Zen Masters is about Ikkyu, Ryokan and Hakuin. I have not read it but would like to!

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Jundo]

I will just offer my somewhat revisionist take on Ikkyu, cautioning that perhaps we should not celebrate alone ...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My opinion of the drinking and some of the womanizing in the brothels has changed recently. (l talked about this yesterday, when Kirk and l were recording Episode 4 of the "Zen of Everything" podcast). Frankly, for that part, l don't think it was really a teaching or "tantra" (the Tibetans, by the way, don't really have sex in a way you would usually think of "sex," but that is off topic). Now, l think that it is more likely that lkkyu Sojun was a wonderful teacher in many ways, but was also just a drunk and a old horn dog in that other part of his life. l don't now think of it as a "teaching," or "iconoclasm," so much as that he liked his sake and his girls for hire.

l think he is a lot like Trungpa in this way, a wonderful teacher in some ways, but an alcoholic and sex fiend in other parts of his life. Hopefully lkkyu just paid for it, and was otherwise an honorable guy, and wasn't the psychological and sexual abuser that a couple of so-called "teachers" have been like Sasaki and Shimano.

This came to me when l read some other translations of lkkyu poems last week, some of which are quite something (granted, these are translations, and l have not looked yet at the original Japanese.)

all koans just lead you on
but not the delicious p**sy of the young girls I go down :

a beautiful woman's hot vagina's full of love
I've given up trying to put out the fire of my body

a crazy lecher shuttling back and forth between whorehouse and bar
this past master paints south north east west with his c*ck

And so on.

ln his last years, he settled down pretty much with one woman, a visually impaired concubine, and that was another part of his life. Before that, not a teaching, just a guy who liked to party, get drunk and screw. Then he would put his robes on and head back to the monastery.

No problem, and at least he was honest and open about it.

'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' ... Episode 4 ....

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?17101-The-ZEN-of-EVERYTHING%21-Podcast-Episode-4

Gassho, Jundo

[Hoseki]

Thanks Folks,

Aprapti, I'm probably going to see if the university library has a copy of the book. A used copy is rather pricey.

Kokuu, I'm looking at picking up a copy of Steven's book. If I do I will let you know what I thought about it.

Jundo, I will keep your concerns in mind. I don't think I will visit the brothel any time soon. I feel fairly certain my wife would have an objection or two I'm actually kind of curious about how he thought about himself but I don't really expect to see much of that given how long ago it was and the likelihood that he may, as you've said in the past, been dipped in gold as it were.

Last year I asked Kokuu about some collections of Haiku and one of the recommends was the Penguin Classic book, The Penguin Book of Haiku, which if I remember right features a number of what we might call risque poems. I think it was attributed to poetry being created by people from different social classes and the general vibe of the milieu (Ukiyo?) of the Edo period.

Anywho, I will read with caution.

Gassho
Hoseki
Sattoday/lah

I will just offer my somewhat revisionist take on Ikkyu, cautioning that perhaps we should not celebrate alone ...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My opinion of the drinking and some of the womanizing in the brothels has changed recently. (l talked about this yesterday, when Kirk and l were recording Episode 4 of the "Zen of Everything" podcast). Frankly, for that part, l don't think it was really a teaching or "tantra" (the Tibetans, by the way, don't really have sex in a way you would usually think of "sex," but that is off topic). Now, l think that it is more likely that lkkyu Sojun was a wonderful teacher in many ways, but was also just a drunk and a old horn dog in that other part of his life. l don't now think of it as a "teaching," or "iconoclasm," so much as that he liked his sake and his girls for hire.

l think he is a lot like Trungpa in this way, a wonderful teacher in some ways, but an alcoholic and sex fiend in other parts of his life. Hopefully lkkyu just paid for it, and was otherwise an honorable guy, and wasn't the psychological and sexual abuser that a couple of so-called "teachers" have been like Sasaki and Shimano.

This came to me when l read some other translations of lkkyu poems last week, some of which are quite something (granted, these are translations, and l have not looked yet at the original Japanese.)

all koans just lead you on
but not the delicious p**sy of the young girls I go down :

a beautiful woman's hot vagina's full of love
I've given up trying to put out the fire of my body

a crazy lecher shuttling back and forth between whorehouse and bar
this past master paints south north east west with his c*ck

And so on.

ln his last years, he settled down pretty much with one woman, a visually impaired concubine, and that was another part of his life. Before that, not a teaching, just a guy who liked to party, get drunk and screw. Then he would put his robes on and head back to the monastery.

No problem, and at least he was honest and open about it.

'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' ... Episode 4 ....

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?17101-The-ZEN-of-EVERYTHING%21-Podcast-Episode-4

Gassho, Jundo

[aprapti]

Hi Hoseki

From the look of things, Aprapti's book is one of very few available on the subject. Most books of his poetry will probably feature something in the way of biography. I only have Crow With No Mouth which has ten pages of Preface and Foreword on Ikkyu and his life.

John Steven's book Extraordinary Zen Masters is about Ikkyu, Ryokan and Hakuin. I have not read it but would like to!

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

i know John Stevens book too and i can recommend it. It's of course not comparable with Covell's book, but maybe more simple to get. A long time ago i read J.H.Sanford, "zen-man Ikkyu". But i do not remember much of that book. Stephen Berg publicised "crow with no mouth" indeed and "Crazy cloud Ikkyu" , both are poetry books. And there is Sonja Arntzen, "Ikkyu and the crazy cloud anthology" , also about his poetry. There is a chapter about Ikkyu in Perle Besserman, Manfred Steger, "Crazy Clouds; zen radicals, rebels and reformers".

But Hoseki asked for a biography and than Covell is the book you want.



aprapti

std