A mistrust when sitting

[dharmasponge]

Hi, its been a while.

I have developed a fear, an non-descript anxiety when practising Shikantaza.

Why?

Because I feel like I can slip into it a little too easy of late. I sit and I am there, immediately....with nowhere else to go and its worrying me.....as a result I avert my practice into something else. I have developed a mistrust of what others might perceive as a success and progression. There's no arrogance or ego attached to my question, its just what happens.

How can I remove this odd obstacle.



Thanks

[Jishin]

Hi, its been a while.

I have developed a fear, an non-descript anxiety when practising Shikantaza.

Why?

Because I feel like I can slip into it a little too easy of late. I sit and I am there, immediately....with nowhere else to go and its worrying me.....as a result I avert my practice into something else. I have developed a mistrust of what others might perceive as a success and progression. There's no arrogance or ego attached to my question, its just what happens.

How can I remove this odd obstacle.



Thanks

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

[Kokuu]

I have developed a fear, an non-descript anxiety when practising Shikantaza.

Why?

Because I feel like I can slip into it a little too easy of late. I sit and I am there, immediately....with nowhere else to go and its worrying me.....as a result I avert my practice into something else. I have developed a mistrust of what others might perceive as a success and progression. There's no arrogance or ego attached to my question, its just what happens.

How can I remove this odd obstacle.

Just keep sitting.

There is no 'there' to be other than where you are.

And no success or failure.

The thoughts are there, as is the fear.

They are not obstacles.

They are all just part of sitting.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Hoseki]

Hi, its been a while.

I have developed a fear, an non-descript anxiety when practising Shikantaza.

Why?

Because I feel like I can slip into it a little too easy of late. I sit and I am there, immediately....with nowhere else to go and its worrying me.....as a result I avert my practice into something else. I have developed a mistrust of what others might perceive as a success and progression. There's no arrogance or ego attached to my question, its just what happens.

How can I remove this odd obstacle.



Thanks

Hi,

I'm afraid I don't have any advice but I wanted to ask a question. I hope that's OK! When you feel this fear do you have any physical symptoms as well?

Gassho
Hoseki
Sattoday

[Kyonin]

Hi,

Yes, just keep sitting and be aware how thoughts arise, how they want to take control and just allow them to stay with no comment or judgment.

What I sometimes do is to sit a few minutes less than my daily time, but I walk kinhin the rest of the time.

Hope this helps.

Gassho,

Kyonin
Sat/LAH

[dharmasponge]

Hi,

I'm afraid I don't have any advice but I wanted to ask a question. I hope that's OK! When you feel this fear do you have any physical symptoms as well?

Gassho
Hoseki
Sattoday

It's probably fair to say it's more like an anxiety than fear. Anxiety mixed with exhilaration. Both of which I can sit through but am then left with a lingering doubt as to the legitimacy of the practice.

[Shokai]

Trust the 2500 year old practice,.Just sit!! The anxiety or fear is just window dressing. Open the curtain and enjoy the view. I remember one time about nine years ago ( I had been sitting regularly for five or six years) when I suddenly started shaking and experiencing then the anxiety/fear which I think you're referring to. I thought, "What's this, what's happening ??" and sitting there in a cold sweat I heard a voice that said, "Let it go!!"

Gassho, Shokai
stlah

[Kokuu]

Both of which I can sit through but am then left with a lingering doubt as to the legitimacy of the practice.

If the object of the practice is to sit with what arises, and what is arising is anxiety, it sounds like the practice is working just fine.


Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday

[Jundo]

What Shokai, Kyonin and Kokuu said.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Hoseki]

It's probably fair to say it's more like an anxiety than fear. Anxiety mixed with exhilaration. Both of which I can sit through but am then left with a lingering doubt as to the legitimacy of the practice.

Ok thanks! I’ve had that happen a few times but it’s never been an ongoing issue (phew.)

I hope it works itself out.

Gassho
Hoseki
Sattoday


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[Jundo]

... but am then left with a lingering doubt as to the legitimacy of the practice

Zazen is strange, but makes a profound point about our psychological and philosophical attitude toward the world and life.

The world/life is just the world/life. It is what it is.

It is only human beings who judge this world/life as satisfying/dissatisfying, complete/lacking, legitimate/illegitimate etc. This life and world leap beyond all such human scales and judging. The world does not feel anxiety about being the world or about the state it is in. Only human beings feel such anxiety about the world.

Thus, we sit Zazen dropping away all human measures of satisfying/dissatisfying, complete/lacking, legitimate/illegitimate etc.

When we do so, a surprising thing happens:

One discovers that the dropping of satisfying/dissatisfying, and the willingness to just sit as what is, is most satisfying!

Putting aside measure of "complete vs. lacking" reveals a wholeness which is complete as it is.

Zazen legitimizes itself when we just drop the question from mind "is this legitimate or not"?

There is something pure and whole, positive and complete about the world when we simply rest, dropping all pursuit of "satisfaction, completion, legitimacy" and the like. This life "as it is," for all its apparent faults, reveals a wholeness beyond all the mental divisions, frictions and feelings of lack. Thus we sit, dropping our wallowing in divided mental categories, frictions and measures of lack. It is the little self which has a head full of categories, divisions, judgments etc, so that sense of self softens or fully drops away. What is to be anxious about?

Sit as "what it is," and life is "what it is." One might say that Zazen is self-legitimizing ("non-self legitimizing"? ) when we simply sit dropping such subjective measures and concerns such as whether it is "legitimate or not."

Gassho, J

STLah

[Rich]

Nobody is perfect. Imperfection is the way of life. Growth only occurs through imperfections

Sat/lah


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[dharmasponge]

Thanks Jundo and everyone else. _/|\_

[Horin]

Yes, I think thinking mind is all about comparing things, expecting rewards, ideas,... sceptical and full of doubt. That's why Zazen is, imo, very good to encounter these mind patterns and to learn not to react to them - but keep sitting and go beyond the doubts, the fear, the mistrust and other thoughts because it's all the mind spinning and doing what it's used to do.

Gassho

Ben

Stlah

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[Jundo]

Dharmasponge, please remember to put your name and "sattoday" before commenting. Thank you.

l saw your comment elsewhere ... May l ask, who told you so? lf it was meant to refer to here (l don't assume so), the advice was not quite this, but rather more subtle about sitting right through "good and bad":

Interestingly he said it was good and I should develop confidence in my practice.

Dammed if I do (...dull vaguely anxious state)

Dammed if I don't (... perpetuate the status quo)

Almost Koan like.

Gassho, J

STLah