What is Zen compassion?

[Tb]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

Hi.

I was thinking, aren't we discussing "the net of indra", in which it is stated that we are all "reflections of everybody else and so forth"?

May the force be with you
Tb

[Jinho]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

Gassho y'all,

I had what was for me a very meaningful experience regarding buddhist compassion. I was at a sesshin and at the end of the week there was a formal question session with two of the five teachers who were there. We were all (I think there was about 70 of us) told to think of a question that was significant to us but something that we wouldn't mind asking in front of everyone, then we could choose which of the two teachers to publically ask oour question. One thing that struck me is that every single question that was asked applied to my life, it was amazing. Anyway, the question I thought of was "what is compassion?" and almost as soon as I thought of it, I had this vivid brief fantasy of Chozen Bays Roshi saying, in a very firm voice "Just Don't Judge". And there was my answer. For me it is not about a generalized feeling of warmth or benevolence (as nice and positive as that can be as a force for a kinder, gentler and more ethical world) but it is about just not judging. As I am a very simple minded person, this answer works for me. Now of course, living it is the work of a lifetime. And it is work, moment by moment. I believe living an ethical life is based on constant examination of my actions and understanding, looking more and more and asking how can I live a more respectful life. Do I live up to this? Of course not. Do I hope to? All we have is hope.

As for self and others are one, speaking as a person with serious (psychological) boundary "issues", I think that that view is only half the picture. In formal koan study, the first set of koans (per Bernie Glassman ROshi I think) is about seeing the interconnectedness and oneness of all phenomena. The second set of koans is about seeing the uniqueness and separateness of all phenomena. The third set is about seeing the oneness of all phenomena and the separateness of all pehnomena At the Same Time. I believe all three understandings are very important and none should be left out (at least they are very important to me ) I hope I did not offend anyone by mentioning koan study in this Soto zendo, it was just the best way I could explain things.

As to tone, conflict, etc in people's posts, I am concerned that a lot of of playful insults might make Treeleaf an emotionally unsafe place for some people (and we would never know because they would simply not post and go away). I am the WORST person to judge these things since I am VERY nervous about what I feel is hostile language. But I am learning that what I perceive as hostility is just free chat. And I do believe in openess and people being far less inhibited than I am (which is very since I suffer from a VERY unenlightened (not very) subconscious......really.....terminal foot in mouth.....maybe whole leg......)

One last note on compassion, for me it begins with asking questions, what do you need? how do you feel? what do you think and why do you think it? Part of "just don't judge" is, for me, firmly knowing that even when I hear someone's answers, I only know my imagining of what that person means/experiences. I get very nervous when people talk about "empathy" since (for personal herstory reasons) I have a rather hard time coping with other people's misconceptions about me.

But even one more note on compassion. I believe it is getting off my butt and doing what needs to be done, helping those called Rowan and those called other names as THEY wish to be helped (or not, as the case may be). In sanzen with Zen Master Jeff Kitsis, he asked the koan "How do you love the world?" and I answered "I cook lunch for the sangha" (I used to do the first retreat day lunch). And he said "CORRECT!" This is what I believe.

As always, thank you for your time
gassho to all,
rowan
who is wading through a rather desperate need to feel welcome

[Jundo]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

Hi Rowan,

Thank you for a lovely post. Please feel welcome here.

As a minor point of clarification ...

As for self and others are one, speaking as a person with serious (psychological) boundary "issues", I think that that view is only half the picture. In formal koan study, the first set of koans (per Bernie Glassman ROshi I think) is about seeing the interconnectedness and oneness of all phenomena. The second set of koans is about seeing the uniqueness and separateness of all phenomena. The third set is about seeing the oneness of all phenomena and the separateness of all pehnomena At the Same Time. I believe all three understandings are very important and none should be left out (at least they are very important to me ) I hope I did not offend anyone by mentioning koan study in this Soto zendo, it was just the best way I could explain things.

In our Soto way, we have the very same philosophy and most of the same Koans. It is just that we do not focus on the Koans during Zazen, which is radically 'goalless just sitting" in our way. We also tend not to approach the Koans as a test to be passed in interviews with the Master. Yet we pierce them in much the same way ... thinking non-thinking, reading non-reading.

I just point that out, because there is so much confusion on the Soto approach to Koans.

Gassho, Jundo

[Jinho]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

Hi Rowan,

Thank you for a lovely post. Please feel welcome here.

As a minor point of clarification ...


In our Soto way, we have the very same philosophy and most of the same Koans. It is just that we do not focus on the Koans during Zazen, which is radically 'goalless just sitting" in our way. We also tend not to approach the Koans as a test to be passed in interviews with the Master. Yet we pierce them in much the same way ... thinking non-thinking, reading non-reading.

I just point that out, because there is so much confusion on the Soto approach to Koans.

Gassho, Jundo

Greetings Jundo,

I think I am waiting to here exactly what the "Soto approach to koans is". The approach I know of is Mumon's

"To realize Zen one has to pass through the barrier of the Patriarchs. Enlightenment follows when the road of thinking ceases. If you do not pass the barrier of the Patriarchs, or if your road of thinking does not cease, then no matter what you think, no matter what you you do, you are like a tangled ghost. You may ask "What is the barrier of the Patriarchs?" This one word "Mu" ("Wu" in the original Chinese) is it. This is the barrier of Zen. If you pass through it, you will see Joshu (Chao Chou in Chinese) face to face. Then you can walk hand-in-hand with the whole line of Patriarchs. Is this not a pleasant thing to do? If you want to pass this barrier, you must work through every bone in your body, through every pore of your skin. You must become filled with the question, "What is Mu?" Carry it with you day and night. Do not believe that it is the common negative syllable meaning "nothing". It is not nothingness, the opposite of existence.If you really want to pass this barrier, you should feel as if you had a hot iron ball embedded in your throat. You can neither swallow it nor spit it out. Then your previous lesser knowledge disappears. Like a fruit ripening in season, your subjectivity and objectivity naturally become one. You are like a dumb man who has a dream. Your ego shell is crushed and you can shake the heaven and move the earth. You are like a great warrior holding a sharp sword. If a a Buddha stands in your way, cut him down. If a Patriarch blocks your way, kill him. You will be free from birth and death. You will be able to enter any world as if it were your own playground. I will tell you how to do this with this koan. Just concentrate your whole energy into this Mu, and do not allow any disruptions to sway you. When you enter this Mu and there are no disruptions, your attainment will be like a burning candle illuminating the whole universe". (From Eido Shimano Roshi's collection "Golden Wind")

So can you please describe the procedure, in Soto zen, for "studying" koans? Maybe you have and I have missed it (I miss many things)?

gassho,
rowan

[Jinho]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

Hi Rowan,

Please feel welcome here.

Gassho, Jundo

Thank you, I will try to.

gassho to all,
rowan

[Jinho]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

But even one more note on compassion. I believe it is getting off my butt and doing what needs to be done, helping those called Rowan and those called other names as THEY wish to be helped (or not, as the case may be). In sanzen with Zen Master Jeff Kitsis, he asked the koan "How do you love the world?" and I answered "I cook lunch for the sangha" (I used to do the first retreat day lunch). And he said "CORRECT!"

As always, thank you for your time
gassho to all,
rowan

(So vain to quote your own posts (where is that damn "smugness" face.......)

I wanted to say that Treeleaf is such a a fine example of getting-off-one's-butt compassion, or rather of Jundo and Skye's compassion "in action". (Yes, yes, I know Jundo's compassion of getting off his butt is most often to get ON his butt and to "just do it" by not doing it :wink

with palms together,
rowan

[Jinho]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

deleted by rowan

[Marina S]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

Hi Folks,

I don't think that I have heard of the term "zen compassion" before. Thich Nhat Hahn's discussion of interdependence resonates a truth for me, but it might not for everyone. Perhaps it is "intellectual" if we only read and think about it. The concept needs to be experienced; then it's not so cerebral. Yes, "I am my neighbour", but at the same time I'm not. If I was to try to walk in someone else's shoes, it would be me doing the walking. I guess that I feel differently about compassion, in that I think it's possible to have compassion for others and also respect that their experience is their own. Hence, I can't totally know what they're going through, even if I've been through a similar experience.

A regular meditation practice has given me the gift of being comfortable with silence, and that in turn has allowed me to slow down and have moments in which I am present for another person. My mind and heart can contain the moment in which I am with the other, without my mind being preoccupied with getting in my opinions and thoughts right away. For me, that's a big part of compassion.

Metta and gassho,
Marina