What is Zen compassion?

[Stephanie]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

And all I was saying is, 'You're full of shit, Stephanie.'

Back at ya, homie :mrgreen:

I was just acknowledging that I'm sort of an asshole, on the edge of things. Deep down, I'm a sweetie, but it takes a little while to see that.

You are what you do in every moment. What else could you be? There is no "deep down." Unless you're talking about Buddha Nature, and even Charlie Manson has that.

[disastermouse]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

And all I was saying is, 'You're full of shit, Stephanie.'

Back at ya, homie :mrgreen:

Show me.

I was just acknowledging that I'm sort of an asshole, on the edge of things. Deep down, I'm a sweetie, but it takes a little while to see that.

You are what you do in every moment. What else could you be? There is no "deep down." Unless you're talking about Buddha Nature, and even Charlie Manson has that.

I'm saying that people who get to know me like me better than people who've just met me. I tend to make a terrible first, second, and/or third impression.

[chessie]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

(quick interjection)
Chet you are so right here. I was ready to strangle you after a few days, but several days later got to enjoy the sass and energy you bring. Also, I tend to like people who make me think--and you do that.

Okay, as Ros, or somebody here would say--

back to your regularaly scheduled discussion
(end interjection)

Ann

[Stephanie]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

I like ya already, Chet, you obnoxious twat :mrgreen:

[Jundo]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

... please relax, calm, find natural balance ... peace and unity ...

Do not bring division and anger to a discussion of wholeness and Compassion.

Gassho, Jundo

[Stephanie]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

My apologies for using harsh words. I respect what you try to realize here in terms of the atmosphere, Jundo, and sometimes I forget or get carried away. I do promise my intention was not to hurt or create division. What I offered here was offered in a spirit of mirth and goodwill, even if there was an edge to it. I will try my best to tone it down--again (isn't this familiar?) ops:

[disastermouse]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

My apologies for using harsh words. I respect what you try to realize here in terms of the atmosphere, Jundo, and sometimes I forget or get carried away. I do promise my intention was not to hurt or create division. What I offered here was offered in a spirit of mirth and goodwill, even if there was an edge to it. I will try my best to tone it down--again (isn't this familiar?) ops:

I wasn't offended by a single thing you said. Maybe I was a bit miffed that you seemed to miss my point, but your language or tone didn't offend me.

I don't know why I'm so rough sometimes. I will endeavor to do better.

Chet

[Jundo]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

I will endeavor to do better.

Chet

Me too. All of us.

[undeceivable]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

This post is a great example of two people having a proper conversation without any forced politeness - the scattering of winks made me feel at ease.
Not being too worried about causing offense is important, no?
I'm terrible at that - always worrying how people might take my words...so I write the minimum :wink:

[Stephanie]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

I enjoy a bit of edgy wordplay and verbal scrappin', it actually helps me make friends with people who annoy me at first :wink: because I can just go with it, have fun, and get into a groove with them. I'd have gotten mad at Chet if I hadn't been able to call him a few names. Instead, I had fun, and irritation gave way to pleasure. His brazenness allowed me to be brazen. That's how I like to roll. Lord knows I can be annoying too and I think people should be able to curse at me as well :mrgreen:

But Jundo has a vision for how he wants this place to operate, and I respect what he's doing. He's asked me to mend my cursin', fightin' ways before, and I try. Just not very hard sometimes, I guess... :lol:

[Jundo]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

Hi,

THIS POSTING MOVED OVER HERE ...

viewtopic.php?p=15034#p15034

[Shindo]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

Am I clear, or have I said too much?

Perfectly clear Jundo - you get my vote & support

Kind regards

Jools

ps - Mcbeam flaky at tonight's sitting, but Ustream fine - thank you for all your efforts

[disastermouse]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

Hi Steph, Chet, Will, Everybody!

I love yous guys stuff. I love what you guys write. I find so many of the ideas fascinating. I love great conversations and "back & forth". I am from the Bronx ... I understand the verbal style, Steph. That's not really it.

I think that what I am trying to say, actually, is not so much about the tone (though there is that sometimes, let's all "make nice" and keep gentle language even when we don't want to do so) ... but more, it is about slowing up the racing mind. The ideas are fascinating, but there are too many of them for Zen practice, too many all at once and/or in sequence.

The way to practice silence and simplicity is so often silence and simplicity.

How about I make a suggestion to everybody in the Sangha (except folks who never post ... they should post more! ): Force yourself to skip two out of three postings you wish to make, and answer with silence? It is like Mushin's excellent practice of looking for the space between breaths (which I fully support ... just not during Shikantaza). We need to respond to more ideas and questions with silence and simplicity, not animated conversations. Don't stop posting and communicating (like we should not stop breathing), but be reserved ... hesitant to speak ... of few words ...

Sometimes, maybe most times, we can best talk about "Zen" ... and these topics ... with stillness, silence, a smile.

I have to go do the Saturday "live" sitting now, but I think I will post this up as its own topic later tonight.

Am I clear, or have I said too much?

Gassho, Jundo

I don't understand the 'why' of it. It seems like a personal preference not really having anything to do with Zen. If you think silence is Zen, well...that seems....misguided, IMHO. In Sesshin? Sure. In the Zendo, yeah. Out in the kitchen or coffee hall? It's all conversation at every Zen place I've ever been. If you want silence, why have a discussion forum?

If it was idle talk, that'd be one thing - but the threads here have actually piqued my interest in resuming my practice in a way that 'silent smiles' just never could.

The only possible reason I could imagine enforcing silence on a discussion forum would be to instill the virtue of 'restraint'. The thing is, in the meatworld, you can say something to someone and they can be completely silent - and yet you know you've been heard. On a DF, the only way you know someone heard you is if they respond.

Probably another reason I have resistance is that I live a very isolated life, and I don't feel very similar to the people around me. It's unusual for me to be around this many people, all of whom are engaged in an authentic Zen practice... or would even be interested in what I find to be the most important thing in this life.

Lastly, with such a far-flung Sangha - it's would be hard to develop any sense of community without these conversations.

Chet

[Stephanie]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

I share some of Chet's opinions, especially about things being different in online discussion forums than they would or could be in "realspace" gatherings. But I understand and respect what Jundo's trying to do, too. If you put too much energy into the sort of arcane arguments you can have on an Internet forum with other people who are geeked out on the same topics you're geeked out on, you can mentally wander down a rat-maze that's easy to get lost in, not find your way out for days, and lose sight of "the bigger picture." I think there should be room for us to throw down with each other here, but I also respect that a good teacher would suggest we shut the hell up every now and then :wink:

I also like Jundo's suggestion of holding back a response every once in a while. I think it would be a good practice for me, at least, and I plan to take it up. Although sometimes I know I won't be able to stop those fingers of mine from flyin' :mrgreen:

And Jundo--where exactly were you born? Didn't you mention Brooklyn before as well? I'd be curious to hear more about your New York background. You're obviously one tough mf, under all that cuddly "play nice" stuff :wink:

[Tb]

Re: What is Zen compassion?

To me, compassion is a process of transformation. Empathy is part of it, intelligence is part of it, action is part of it. As with zazen, it is an emptying of the self, a process of opening.

Is that what zazen is?

Yes, and no. Thats only part of it.

Ask yourself, empty what into what? opening what into what?

May the force be with you
Tb