To be Happy or not to be Happy

[Jundo]

Although I think this is also profoundly wise, it does seem to confuse Happiness for a state of mental equilibrium. That mental state that allows whatever to arise to arise without being bothered one way or another.

Sat
. Seiryu

I would disagree. There is a difference from mere dull or unemotional equanimity and not being bothered one way or another.

I like to speak of a Bliss (Big "B") so Blissful that one does not even need to feel blissful (small "b") in human terms, or even happy ... and can be downright Blissful to be sometimes unhappy and downright miserable ... as life sometimes is.

It is a mistake to confuse this Buddha Bliss with the "la la land" "walkiing on clouds" shot of opium "just fell in love" Christmas morning presents under the tree feeling that human beings usually consider "bliss." Perhaps such a person would "blissfully" walk right off a cliff, and would miss a good deal of the richness of this human life like a fellow curled up in his opium bed so "blissful" that he forgets to eat. Even if that were possible, who wants to live (or can live) like that? Does one only like comedies, and forgets the rest of the drama?

Better is this all encompassing JOY that is thoroughly Joyous (Big "J") to be joyous and pleased sometimes and Joyous to sometimes cry and moan with a toothache too. The Buddha, I feel, knew such Joy based on all the old stories where he was complaining about the pain of his body growing old and falling apart, and the disappointments that he encountered even in trying to deal with other people (as when he could not prevent war despite his trying to stop marching armies, or disease even among his ailing monks). Samsara (this world) is sometimes hard and painful and sad too ... and that's okay, because this is not the only way to view things.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Seiryu]

I would disagree. There is a difference from mere dull or unemotional equanimity and not being bothered one way or another.

I like to speak of a Bliss (Big "B") so Blissful that one does not even need to feel blissful (small "b") in human terms, or even happy ... and can be downright Blissful to be sometimes unhappy and downright miserable ... as life sometimes is.

It is a mistake to confuse this Buddha Bliss with the "la la land" "walkiing on clouds" shot of opium "just fell in love" Christmas morning presents under the tree feeling that human beings usually consider "bliss." Perhaps such a person would "blissfully" walk right off a cliff, and would miss a good deal of the richness of this human life like a fellow curled up in his opium bed so "blissful" that he forgets to eat. Even if that were possible, who wants to live (or can live) like that? Does one only like comedies, and forgets the rest of the drama?

Better is this all encompassing JOY that is thoroughly Joyous (Big "J") to be joyous and pleased sometimes and Joyous to sometimes cry and moan with a toothache too. The Buddha, I feel, knew such Joy based on all the old stories where he was complaining about the pain of his body growing old and falling apart, and the disappointments that he encountered even in trying to deal with other people (as when he could not prevent war despite his trying to stop marching armies, or disease even among his ailing monks). Samsara (this world) is sometimes hard and painful and sad too ... and that's okay, because this is not the only way to view things.

Gassho, J

STLah

I see what you are pointing out, and I am not even in disagreement with it.
I guess I'm simply trying to define our terms.

For, at least to me, this type of Bliss and happiness that is normally associated with enlightened beings seems to fall more in line with the description of the highest aims of yoga as depicted in the Bhagavad Gita.

One whose mind remains undisturbed amidst misery, who does not crave for pleasure, and who is free from attachment, fear, and anger, is called a sage of steady wisdom. ~B.G 2.56

Happiness and sadness and any other emotional wave that arises is one thing...and that which is ok and not disturbed by that is another.

That which is spacious enough to hold both Happiness, sadness, bodily aches and pain, with a "Joyous attitude" doesn't seem to be the same as "happiness" the way it is normally thought and used.

Gassho,

Seiryu



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[Junkyo]

What a great thread! So many wonderful answers.

A few years ago I went through a fairly deep depression. I had lost a large number of loved ones in a very short time, including my first teacher, and my wife and I had experienced our first miscarriage. It was rough and happiness really began to seem like a fantasy.

I was wise enough to know I need some counselling to deal with the grief I was experiencing. My psychologist asked me a question that I will never forget, and that has helped me through all of the rough times since.

He simply asked, "Why do you need to be happy?" When he asked this I was absolutely floored. I just could not come up with a good answer! With one simple question he caused all of my ideas of how things should be to implode.

Now anytime I am having a tough go of things, and I ask that age old question of "Why can't I just be happy!?" his question of "Why do you need to be happy?" rises up and I remember that I do not "need" to be happy. I can simply just "be".

Gassho,

Junkyo
SAT

[Kevin Benbow]

What a great thread! So many wonderful answers.

A few years ago I went through a fairly deep depression. I had lost a large number of loved ones in a very short time, including my first teacher, and my wife and I had experienced our first miscarriage. It was rough and happiness really began to seem like a fantasy.

I was wise enough to know I need some counselling to deal with the grief I was experiencing. My psychologist asked me a question that I will never forget, and that has helped me through all of the rough times since.

He simply asked, "Why do you need to be happy?" When he asked this I was absolutely floored. I just could not come up with a good answer! With one simple question he caused all of my ideas of how things should be to implode.

Now anytime I am having a tough go of things, and I ask that age old question of "Why can't I just be happy!?" his question of "Why do you need to be happy?" rises up and I remember that I do not "need" to be happy. I can simply just "be".

Gassho,

Junkyo
SAT

Boy, whatever you do, don't let go (pun intended) of that psychologist!

As a counselor, it is easy for we who provide psychotherapy to feel that it is our job to help people be happy.

It is not. Even psychotherapists are sometimes not happy.

We sometimes help people cope with very shi**ty situations. To be OK with and accept the situation, or in more Buddhist flavor, the universe as it is.

Gassho

klb

sat today

[Tai Shi]

My unhappiness always was coupled with two things-- anger and its repercussions. My whole life until I was about 60 had been the result of what people thought of me. I had some friends who I thought were always thinking of me. My life had also depended on these five people, not my wife, daughter, brother, or dad. My mom had been dead for almost 25 years, and still I believed they were concerned about her death at age 68 from breast cancer. I kept thinking they knew parts of my life totally personal, and I would sometimes call them up to find out why they hadn't called me. I explained on Facebook, and I was a hybrid of believing Christian, and practicing Soto Zen Buddhist. This is acceptable here on Treeleaf Zendo, and in my Unitarian Universalist church, but suddenly they began posting in the negative. I called up two of them, "Don't you see! We cannot tolerate any Christianity! They have done horrid things and by posting this, you force your beliefs on us." I took a deep breath, and I unfriended all five. At first, I was frightened, and tried to befriend them only to learn they had blocked me, and then they would not answer my calls. One person blocked my calls. I thought hard, "I regret this, but isn't anger, and (unhappiness) fear a fiction. I had learned this from my therapist. I have excellent friendships here in my home area, I'm close to my family, what need of I of people who haven't called me in many years, who hadn't been friends since college. I realized my therapist is right. Anger is a fiction, and at any time I can rewrite my own story. I regret that some are intolerant. I posted in my bio on Facebook, "I believe in religious freedom, and I love my family." This took courage, courage to finally realize that I am a strong and happy man.
Tai Shi
sat/lah
Gassho

[Jakuden]

My unhappiness always was coupled with two things-- anger and its repercussions. My whole life until I was about 60 had been the result of what people thought of me. I had some friends who I thought were always thinking of me. My life had also depended on these five people, not my wife, daughter, brother, or dad. My mom had been dead for almost 25 years, and still I believed they were concerned about her death at age 68 from breast cancer. I kept thinking they knew parts of my life totally personal, and I would sometimes call them up to find out why they hadn't called me. I explained on Facebook, and I was a hybrid of believing Christian, and practicing Soto Zen Buddhist. This is acceptable here on Treeleaf Zendo, and in my Unitarian Universalist church, but suddenly they began posting in the negative. I called up two of them, "Don't you see! We cannot tolerate any Christianity! They have done horrid things and by posting this, you force your beliefs on us." I took a deep breath, and I unfriended all five. At first, I was frightened, and tried to befriend them only to learn they had blocked me, and then they would not answer my calls. One person blocked my calls. I thought hard, "I regret this, but isn't anger, and (unhappiness) fear a fiction. I had learned this from my therapist. I have excellent friendships here in my home area, I'm close to my family, what need of I of people who haven't called me in many years, who hadn't been friends since college. I realized my therapist is right. Anger is a fiction, and at any time I can rewrite my own story. I regret that some are intolerant. I posted in my bio on Facebook, "I believe in religious freedom, and I love my family." This took courage, courage to finally realize that I am a strong and happy man.
Tai Shi
sat/lah
Gassho

Wow! Deep bows Tai shi

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH