The BIG question...

[Stephanie]

Re: The BIG question...

Ros,

Thank you so much for the warm welcome. It's good to be back here at Treeleaf. Sometimes I just have to drift away for a while, but I can't help but come back because the people here are so wonderful and the discussion so on-target.

Gassho,

Stephanie

[disastermouse]

Re: The BIG question...

Over time, I think one, especially as one continues to practice, develops a more intuitive sense for how to address such questions. The main thing is not having some sort of prepared speech or systematic method, but starting with the person who's asking. Where are they coming from? What are their interests? What moves them? It's much better to begin by asking the person about what prompted their interest and what ideas they may already have about it. For example, you'd probably explain it very differently to someone who was disconsolate after a recent breakup and looking for something to make sense of the heartbreak, and someone who smokes a lot of pot and likes to contemplate the hidden meanings in Tool lyrics and was curious after Maynard said some really cool thing about Buddhism in an interview :wink:

This sounds very fishy to me. Are we trying to describe Zen and Buddhism in the best possible light? Are we selling something here? Are we really trying to offer consolation to the heartbroken and cater to the philisophical?

You see a lot of this in Evangelical Christianity - but I've always been refreshed by how absent it is in Zen - particularly Soto Zen.

I seem to recall a tale about the Buddha and a farmer where the farmer complains about all of his problems and asks the Buddha to help fix them. The Buddha basically says, "I can't help you with this." He goes on to state that everyone has 83 problems and even if you fix one of them, it'll be replaced by another. The farmer is confused and annoyed. If the Buddha can't fix his problems, what good is he? The Buddha then states that he CAN help the farmer with the 84th problem. "What's the 84th problem?" asks the farmer? The Buddha says, "The 84th problem is the crazy idea that you shouldn't have any problems".

[Stephanie]

Re: The BIG question...

Well, the difference between what I'm describing and Christian evangelism is that I would only offer an attempt to describe Buddhism as a worthy philosophy and/or practice to someone who asked about it. I don't feel a need to convert everyone to Buddhism and actually think the world would be a pretty boring place if everyone practiced the same religion. But I do know from my experience that exploring Buddhism can be very rewarding, so why would I not describe Buddhism in the best possible light to someone coming to me with a curiosity about it?

I do admit there's times I am very tempted to "sell" Buddhism to someone, when it's someone describing problems to me that I believe a Buddhist practice could help with, but I fight myself on these occasions because on some level I know it's inappropriate to evangelize meditation; someone has to come to this path on their own. The few times I have tried to proclaim Buddhism to someone who wasn't asking about it, I've always felt embarrassed afterward, and I've learned pretty quickly this isn't appropriate.

[Shindo]

Re: The BIG question...

The few times I have tried to proclaim Buddhism to someone who wasn't asking about it, I've always felt embarrassed afterward, and I've learned pretty quickly this isn't appropriate.

Oh I've done that too Stephanie & I cringe at the memory - however, well intentioned I was. ops:

Kind regards

Jools

[Stephanie]

Re: The BIG question...

The few times I have tried to proclaim Buddhism to someone who wasn't asking about it, I've always felt embarrassed afterward, and I've learned pretty quickly this isn't appropriate.

Oh I've done that too Stephanie & I cringe at the memory - however, well intentioned I was. ops:

Kind regards

Jools

Indeed ops:

Though my dumb ass will probably make the same mistake again somewhere down the road... and learn that lesson all over again... :roll: :lol:

[disastermouse]

Re: The BIG question...

Well, the difference between what I'm describing and Christian evangelism is that I would only offer an attempt to describe Buddhism as a worthy philosophy and/or practice to someone who asked about it. I don't feel a need to convert everyone to Buddhism and actually think the world would be a pretty boring place if everyone practiced the same religion. But I do know from my experience that exploring Buddhism can be very rewarding, so why would I not describe Buddhism in the best possible light to someone coming to me with a curiosity about it?

I do admit there's times I am very tempted to "sell" Buddhism to someone, when it's someone describing problems to me that I believe a Buddhist practice could help with, but I fight myself on these occasions because on some level I know it's inappropriate to evangelize meditation; someone has to come to this path on their own. The few times I have tried to proclaim Buddhism to someone who wasn't asking about it, I've always felt embarrassed afterward, and I've learned pretty quickly this isn't appropriate.

You know, I have no idea what brings people to Buddhism. I came to Zen because it was very clear to me (after a genuine review) that it was describing a radical realization that I'd already had.

So...maybe appealing to people by telling them that Zen will 'improve' their lives is a smart move. I just don't know if it's an accurate representation of Zen.

[Stephanie]

Re: The BIG question...

I came to Zen because it was very clear to me (after a genuine review) that it was describing a radical realization that I'd already had.

You are too f'in much :lol:

[disastermouse]

Re: The BIG question...

I came to Zen because it was very clear to me (after a genuine review) that it was describing a radical realization that I'd already had.

You are too f'in much :lol:

What's wrong with that? Read my intro - I go into how I got into Zen.

Do you not believe one can have an independent kensho experience before being introduced to Zen?

[Stephanie]

Re: The BIG question...

Sure, absolutely. It's just that cockiness of yours. I love it.

[disastermouse]

Re: The BIG question...

Sure, absolutely. It's just that cockiness of yours. I love it.

I don't really see that as cocky.

When you see something very clearly, you have few doubts about what you saw. I have many, many doubts about many, many other things. I have no doubt about the core teachings of Zen Buddhism.

[Jundo]

Re: The BIG question...

Everyone ... please relax, calm, find natural balance .... know silence.

Do not lose peace and balance in discussing how to explain peace and balance. Do not throw words at the subject of "explaining".

The best way, I feel, to explain our practice to friends and relatives is just by how we live, how we act in situations. Like RIGHT NOW.

Gassho, Jundo

[Stephanie]

Re: The BIG question...

Sure, absolutely. It's just that cockiness of yours. I love it.

I don't really see that as cocky.

When you see something very clearly, you have few doubts about what you saw. I have many, many doubts about many, many other things. I have no doubt about the core teachings of Zen Buddhism.

It's not what you say, it's how you say it. I can't really describe it to you, just... look at your posts as if you weren't you, and think of how someone who doesn't know you might "hear" what you say. Not that I'm saying that I think it's a problem or that you should correct it, mind you. I find it entertaining. It just seems to be part of your personality, and it's nice when people have personalities

[disastermouse]

Re: The BIG question...

Sure, absolutely. It's just that cockiness of yours. I love it.

I don't really see that as cocky.

When you see something very clearly, you have few doubts about what you saw. I have many, many doubts about many, many other things. I have no doubt about the core teachings of Zen Buddhism.

It's not what you say, it's how you say it. I can't really describe it to you, just... look at your posts as if you weren't you, and think of how someone who doesn't know you might "hear" what you say. Not that I'm saying that I think it's a problem or that you should correct it, mind you. I find it entertaining. It just seems to be part of your personality, and it's nice when people have personalities

My girlfriend HATES it.

[Stephanie]

Re: The BIG question...

My girlfriend HATES it.

Maybe, but I bet it's more like she love/hates it :mrgreen:

[disastermouse]

Re: The BIG question...

My girlfriend HATES it.

Maybe, but I bet it's more like she love/hates it :mrgreen:

Naw. Just hates it.