Being spontaneous? umm, maybe later

[Dosho]

Re: Being spontaneous? umm, maybe later

Hi Keith,

Thanks much for the reply and for indulging my curiousity.

I agree that nothing, including Zen, is a cure all. As a beginner though it's hard not to examine your most tightly held beliefs as you start to let some of them go, which is a good thing I think. Perhaps the line between what's good to discuss here and what's best left on the couch are a bit intermixed for awhile, but I'm quite content to let that sort itself out.

And, you are quite correct, I'm not an axe murder.

Gassho,
Scott

[will]

Re: Being spontaneous? umm, maybe later

Keith
I don't know what this means. Are you talking about our collective experience as human beings or our individual experiences? I can see how, as humans, we experience very similar things (emotions, physical sensations, etc.), but I'm skeptical that I process or manifest those phenomena the some way as, say, Hitler or Jeffrey Dahmer or Brad Pitt or Joe the grocer. It seems that our experiences have a definite boundary line.

Hi Keith.

When I posted that the meaning was, take for example a flower. Perhaps someone might see a pink flower and say that's a beautiful pink flower. However the flower also has a scent, so perhaps we don't experience the whole flower. There's more to it than just pink and flower.

It seems that our experience is wide open and the more we practice the more our experience opens up and wisdom appears. Some thing like that.

Gassho

[disastermouse]

Re: Being spontaneous? umm, maybe later

Perhaps Dogen wanted to dislodge the idea that any particular sense object could be it.

Really, it is 'coming and going thus'.

[Dainin]

Re: Being spontaneous? umm, maybe later

When I posted that the meaning was, take for example a flower. Perhaps someone might see a pink flower and say that's a beautiful pink flower. However the flower also has a scent, so perhaps we don't experience the whole flower. There's more to it than just pink and flower.

It seems that our experience is wide open and the more we practice the more our experience opens up and wisdom appears. Some thing like that.

Hi Will,

Ah, okay. Thank you. Yes, I agree - not to get lost, bogged down, or caught in our limited views, thoughts, and understanding. Instead, our practice can help us to be more open to all kinds of experiences and phenomena.

Best,
Keith

[Eika]

Re: Being spontaneous? umm, maybe later

BTW,
The whole of reality manifests spontaneously from moment to moment whether we are aware of it or not.
As a musician I can say that my most successful music making has occurred when I've more-or-less got out of the way. The practice of form and study of style certainly informs the performance of the actions, but the in-the-moment actions themselves are spontaneous, intuitively informed, not conscious. I can't really say where they come from, its ineffable. A lot of being a performer, or other sort of artist, is in learning to trust, accept and allow this process I think.

Regards,

Harry.

I agree completely, Harry. Well said. Practice as much as you can then get out of the way on the gig (not caring whether or not any of the stuff you practiced comes out).

As Jundo has said numerous times, Zen (and I'd add everything else in and of itself) is not a cure-all. I know you didn't say it was, but I think some people approach it as a panacea for ever ill they have.

Reminds me of the AM radio preachers who claim that their prayer cloths will cure ANY ailment. Of course one has to make a donation to get one of the prayer cloths . . .

Bill