Negative effects of meditation?

[Kyoshin]

I definitely think the title is overblown clickbait, but it started some good conversation here!

Gassho,
Kyōshin
Satlah

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[Nanrin]

The article seems to have a broad definition of unpleasant experiences - I'm surprised that only 25% claimed to have something unpleasant arise.

I think that different meditation techniques generally have different results. Most of the articles I've read about negative side-effects of meditation were from insight meditation, sometimes referred to as vipassana meditation. These types of techniques originated from Burmese teachers reading ancient commentaries on the Pali cannon and have since spread throughout the Theravada Buddhist world, including the West. Mindfulness meditation is a simplified version taken from these techniques. Those same commentaries describe a series of stages people will go through, including fear, misery, disgust, and more before arriving at equanimity. This article mentions that "deconstructive meditators were 65 percent more likely to have had an unpleasant experience compared with those who chose other approaches." It seems that those techniques are more likely to cause problems, but they work well for many.

Another approach is to calm the mind and let insight arise on it's own. In the Theravada tradition, this is usually called samatha (calm, tranquil) meditation. These techniques may aim for anything from extreme states of high concentration to a relazed balance of awareness and equanimity. The latter seems like zazen to me. Anecdotally, in my experience these techniques are 'safer,' but I think that in an intensive setting they too can have extreme unpleasant results for some. It's always a safe bet to have an experienced teacher and supportive community around.

Do any of you know of studies that focus on shikantaza specifically?

Nanrin (Southern Forest)
st, lah

[Kokuu]

Hi all!

I look at this a little like I see exercise in society. We know that exercise is pretty good for us in general. However, it is also true that numerous people each year are hurt while taking exercise and some even die.

Does that mean we should stop recommending exercise? I don't think so.

If we are going to embark on a programme of exercise, the first thing to do would be to consult with our doctor to see if we are doing something appropriate, if we have any doubts. Then we should, if necessary, get some training in the form of exercise we are doing, maybe hire a personal trainer. The programme itself should start gently and gradually build up as we get used to it.

If we go straight into a form of exercise that our body is not fit for or go too hard and too fast, such as an intensive army type bootcamp or marathon run without preparation, we can expect to get injuries. A lot of problems with meditation I hear about, including in the above article, are of people doing an intenstive retreat without a regular daily sitting practice. This seems like a bad idea and similar to running a marathon out of condition. You may get through it fine but it is not advisable.

When starting meditation, it is good to get reliable instruction and preferably a teacher to talk through any issues with. If you have any mental health or emotional problems it is worth checking with a doctor to see if meditation practice is appropriate for you.

However, even with all of the right preparation for exercise or meditation it is impossible to rule out that someone will experience negative consequences as a result. As Jundo says, most of this will be limited to experiencing unwanted emotions and having to work through psychological issues, just as in exercise we may get muscle pulls or strains. Occasionally there may be more serious issues such as depersonalisation. I can say, though, having met hundreds of meditators online and in person, I have never heard of this happening. That is not to say it does not but I think that the incidence is very low.

My take home message from articles like this is to say that meditation is safe and unlikely to leave any permanent harm. However, it is important for students to get good advice and follow it and for teachers to assess whether students are in a good mental place for practice. Occasionally at Treeleaf we have needed to tell someone to give zazen a break for a bit. I know that some retreat centres in the UK ask people not to come if they have been bereaved in the last year or are suffering from bad depression as sitting for intense periods with thoughts at those times can be counterproductive. If we start to get worrying psychological states, we should stop and seek the advice of a teacher rather than continue regardless just as if we get leg pain when running.

When we prepare for it properly, exercise is a necessary and healthy part of human life, and so is meditation in my opinion. We should neither catastrophise the number of adverse reactions to practice nor dismiss them but learn from the studies about what to look for in someone who is struggling and how that can be prevented from happening.

This would seem to be the sensible middle way.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[newby_x86]

Just wanted to thank you for your response, Kokuu. It hit home with me greatly

Gassho,
Anant

[Timchenko_Oleg]

Thank you, dearly Kokuu [emoji120]

Gassho,
Oleg
Sat today, Lend a Hand

[Meian]

Kokuu, most definitely.

Also, I still feel that in shikantaza we bring all of ourselves to the cushion. Good, bad, nothing, the roller coaster in between. Life is not all rainbows and sunny skies, even as tv commercials might try to convince us that is possible.

Experiencing the full spectrum of emotions and feelings is part of being alive and human -- but without getting trapped in believing that we ARE the feelings and emotions. (Scientifically it's technically biochemistry at work, but different topic ....)

I have gone through times where I have shortened my sessions as needed. I lengthen them at other times as I learn what I can handle, or I sit a few short sessions per day. It is, however, my "home base."

I have learned so much here at Treeleaf from Jundo and many others -- I don't often say it, but I do watch, read, and contemplate. And I work with it.

Grateful for all of it.

Gassho
Kim
St lh

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