E-sangha Soto Zen Section

[Hans]

Re: E-sangha Soto Zen Section

Hello!

Just another worthless opinion here. Do most of the official E-sangha statements sound extremely orthodox/conservative and sometimes not very open-minded? IMHO, Yep.
Do I get the feeling that there is still a lot of "my tradition is holier than thy tradition" stuff around on e-sangha. Yep.

However, the way I see it, even if they are constantly "dissing" and even censoring modern forms of Soto-Zen and similar approaches, e-sangha is not the UN governing body for Buddhism in general. If I understand its history correctly, it started with one person's vision and comes down to loads of time and resources being put into it. It's their birthday party, if we're not invited, well....tough.
If one doesn't like what they are saying, well, nobody is forced to log on to e-sangha. They are successful and they deserve to be successful in the sense that they put loads of blood, sweat and tears into building this whole thing. If the Soto-school of zen buddhism had allocated some real funds to spreading Soto-Zen via the internet, we wouldn't even have this discussion, because we wouldn't care about e-sangha, we'd have another general buddhist playground with our own rules and the Shobogenzo and all of Dogen's teachings as a PDF and ten thousand subtitled videos by leading Japanese scholars etc.

To be totally honest, in a sense I love the fact that E-Sangha is so conservative, beacause that allows me to know what they are about, and in turn, where I beg to differ with regards to Buddhism.

Shinnyo-En, Soka-Gakkai and a thousand other organizations make much more radical claims when it comes to who or what represents the true dharma, yet nobody is trying to step on their toes too much, because they are very powerful.

With all due respect Jundo, I can relate to what you seem to be doing, but I am just wondering about the priorities here. But then again as you well know I have very peculiar ideas about religious tolerance etc. because to me it is always about the world view being propagated, and the details of that particular world-view. IMHO nothing and no one deserves carte blanche tolerance just because the label religion is attached to it....however that's a different topic.

Gassho,

Hans

[Skye]

Re: E-sangha Soto Zen Section

Well, I disagree with you, Hans. Regardless if whether or not there is a choice, e-sangha is a "de facto" authority by the virtue of it being the top result when you search for, ie "buddhist forum". If they are misrepresenting the Zen tradition, that is to me, defamation, and it would be better if they did not have Zen forums at all.

Tracy, I highly doubt the legal action's purpose is to shut down e-sangha completely. More likely it is to review and follow their own site policies, or to stop representing themselves as an authority on the Zen tradition.

Skye

[chicanobudista]

Re: E-sangha Soto Zen Section

At this point, they have the fastest mods in the Internet. Any post that asks about the Soto Zen foum is quickly locked. Ping! :mrgreen:

[enchentez]

Re: E-sangha Soto Zen Section

I hope that as part of this action the plaintiffs will 1) subpoena "deleted" -- which might just mean "disappeared from public view" -- threads and all other archival records for relevant content and evidence of objectionable activities on the part of e-sangha staff, and 2) consider expanding this action to include other aggrieved parties, i.e., a "class-action" suit.

It might prove worthwhile to attempt to notify the internet community of this action so that others who wish to be involved may participate.

Thank you for your consideration and your courage.

[Jinho]

Re: E-sangha Soto Zen Section

Hello!

However, the way I see it, even if they are constantly "dissing" and even censoring modern forms of Soto-Zen and similar approaches, e-sangha is not the UN governing body for Buddhism in general. If I understand its history correctly, it started with one person's vision and comes down to loads of time and resources being put into it. It's their birthday party, if we're not invited, well....tough.

Gassho,

Hans

Hi Hans,

I wish to disagree with you in that I think E-sangha is blatantly misrepresenting itself. I looked on the website and it says:

"E-Sangha’s main objective is to provide those who are interested in learning more about Buddhism a meeting place where participants can learn through discussions, and come to a correct understanding of the various aspects involved in Buddha's teachings. E-Sangha's intent is to keep the tradition alive and flourishing, and to help bring peace, harmony and happiness into everyones lives. One does not need to be a Buddhist to benefit from the teachings, the benefits are available to everyone.
E-Sangha Chat & Forum provides forums for participation in discussions which includes all the main traditions such as Mahayana, Vajrayana, Nichiren, Theravada and Zen. There is also a facility for general Buddhist discussion where members are able to engage in exchanging various aspects of this ancient tradition.
Topics discussed at E-Sangha range from meditation techniques, problems encountered in meditation, vegan and vegetarian issues, history of different traditions, fake dharma, understanding the various aspects of a particular traditions and their respective Masters, practices and beliefs, Nirvana, issues relating to Re-Birth and Re-incarnation, Buddhist cult, concept of mind, Buddhist theory of knowledge and causation, issues relating to karma and much more."

In this I believe it is representing itself as an open discussion of all viewpoints and traditions. What they add is "We (the moderators) of e-sangha are very concerned to protect people from being deluded by false views of Buddhism and incorrect understanding, therefore we will, from time to time, delete any posts which espouse incorrect ideas. We do this, not out of any animosity to any particular person, but in the best interests of people who are new to Buddhism and might be led astray by non-Buddhist ideas."

as usual,
rowan

[Jinho]

Re: E-sangha Soto Zen Section

Hi All,

Me sick (cold). I did not notice in the e-sangha intro that they mention correct understanding, and a discussion of "fake dharma". However, they still don't say they will pull posts that they deem to be incorrect.

gassho,
rowan
back to the kleenex (washcloth actually since it is washable)

[disastermouse]

Re: E-sangha Soto Zen Section

However, the way I see it, even if they are constantly "dissing" and even censoring modern forms of Soto-Zen and similar approaches, e-sangha is not the UN governing body for Buddhism in general. If I understand its history correctly, it started with one person's vision and comes down to loads of time and resources being put into it. It's their birthday party, if we're not invited, well....tough.

That doesn't sound much like Buddhism to me, though - and that's the problem. They set themselves up as an authority and then they act very badly to other sects.

The behavior by the mods of that forum have forever turned me away from Tibetan Buddhism and Tibetan Buddhists. I no longer even read Tibetan Buddhist books or scriptures of any kind because no one from the Tibetan community has reigned in the bigotry on that site.

The last thing Buddhism needs is sectarian censorship by a site that is ostensibly there to serve the ENTIRE Buddhist community.