Yet another Heart Sutra Translation

[Mp]

Hello to all,

This my first reply in the forum, but I think I have a question that applies in thsi thread (if not, I apologize). I usually chant the sino-japanese version of the Heart Sutra, but I use the translation that is available in the Sotozen-net:

https://global.sotozen-net.or.jp/eng/practice/sutra/pdf/01/04.pdf

I find the translation to be more concise and direct than the others I have found. I'd like to know what you think of this translation?


Gassho
Mateus

Sat today

Hey Mateus,

There are many different translations to the sutras, not just to the Heart Sutra ... neither one is a right or wrong translation, it really depends on the translator. That being said, regardless of the translation they all express the same beauty of reality right here and now. So if this translation calls to you, then please practice with that one. =)

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

[Jundo]

Just as Shingen said.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Shokai]

Thank you for the proceeding discussions. The Responses to this thread are interesting to say the least.
I was introduced to the Heart Sutra twenty-five years ago by a young Japanese lady whom my late wife was tutoring in conversational English in exchange for being introduced to several Japanese cultural experiences. She gave me a beautiful calligraphic model and copy sheets along with an Illustrated Japanese book on the Heart Sutra. I used to take this material to work and while waiting around during slow periods our translators would help me study. Consequently, we got into some heavy discussions on Buddhism vs Christianity as well as committing the Heart Sutra to memory (them as well as me).
You are probably all aware that Most Sanghas have their own Chant Books, Treeleaf being no exception:see here, and so the polite thing to do is 'When in Rome...." Having said that, Jundo and Shingen have both above reiterated there are many translations as similarly with Shobogenzo or any other of the Sutras and it is sometimes worth researching these to deepen your personal understanding of what the original writings are pointing to; or at least give you a starting point to form your questions.
Again, Thank you and gassho, Shokai
stlah

[Tai Do]

Thank you all for the kind responses. I will look at other translations and use our own.
Gassho,
Mateus

Sat today/LAH

[Jundo]

Thank you all for the kind responses. I will look at other translations and use our own.
Gassho,
Mateus

Sat today/LAH

And, of course, you can chant in Portuguese. Language does not matter for what is more than words.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Jishin]

Thank you all for the kind responses. I will look at other translations and use our own.
Gassho,
Mateus

Sat today/LAH

Sutra do Coração
OM, homenagem à venerável perfeição da sabedoria!

O bodhisattva Avalokiteshvara, em profunda meditação Prajna Paramita
viu claramente a vacuidade da natureza dos cinco agregados
e libertou-se da dor.

Ó Shariputra, forma não é senão vacuidade,
Vacuidade não é senão forma;

Forma é precisamente vacuidade,
vacuidade precisamente forma.
Sensação, percepção, reacção e consciência
são também assim.

Ó Shariputra, todas as coisas são expressões da vacuidade.
Não nascidas, não destruídas; não maculadas, não puras,
Sem crescimento nem declínio.
Assim na vacuidade não há forma,
Sensação, percepção, reacção nem consciência;
Não há olhos, ouvidos, nariz, língua, corpo, mente;
Não há cor, som, odor, sabor, tacto, objecto;
Não há campo de visão nem campo de consciência;
Não há ignorância nem fim da ignorância.
Não há velhice e morte nem cessação da velhice e da morte;
Não há sofrimento nem causa do sofrimento.
Não há caminho, não há sabedoria nem proveito.

Sem proveito – assim os Bodhisattvas vivem esta Prajna Paramita
Sem obstáculos na mente.
Sem obstáculos e por isso sem medo.
Muito para além das ilusões, Nirvana é aqui.
Todos os Budas passados, presentes e futuros vivem esta Prajna Paramita
E alcançam a suprema, perfeita iluminação.

Por isso deves saber que Prajna Paramita é o sagrado mantra;
O mantra da grande sabedoria, o melhor mantra.
O mantra luminoso, o mantra supremo,
O mantra incomparável
Que dissipa todo o sofrimento.
Isto é verdade.
Por isso pratica o mantra da Prajna Praramita
Pratica este mantra e proclama:

GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE BODHI SVAHA!

Isto completa o Coração da Venerável Perfeição da Sabedoria.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_hqeHEhEjg

Gassho, Jishin, ST

[Tai Do]

Thank you Jundo, Jishin and Shokai. I didn’t know there where Portuguese translations available (but I also didn’t look for them, so... my bab!).
Gassho,
Mateus
Sat today/LAH

[Nanrin]

Very interesting thread. I enjoy reading and listening to TNH from time to time, but his explanation of emptiness always struck me as different (not wrong, but not what other people teach), but I couldn't put my finger on how it was different. Bits and pieces.

I first read the heart sutra in several English translations, but mostly missed the meaning. One day I searched for Thai translations, and my understanding suddenly deepened. It just clicked. Since then I have chanted it in Thai when on my own. I chant in our English (and Japanese) version for zazenkai and other events here. Both are good, neither are the heart of the sutra, that is somewhat beyond words.

Gassho

Southern Forest (Nanrin)

St

[Tokan]

I have enjoyed reading everyone's comments in this thread. I used to be very engaged in the process of determining the "precise" meaning of things, but now enjoy more the human connections that develop from the debate and heartfelt consideration, though the intellectual in me is still alive, but locked in the cupboard under the stairs for now! It is all dharma at the end of the day I suppose

For me, I have often needed to remind myself to stop looking at the finger pointing at the moon, though when you can't see the moon it is helpful to have a knowledgeable person point it out

Gassho, sattoday - Tokan

[Hoseki]

If you read it, and some of TNH's other writings, he seems somewhat influenced by Theravadan interpretations (as is common in Vietnam) and as some commentators note about him, is surprisingly a "things and their parts" oriented materialist.

Let me briefly explain:

First. most Mahayana translators prefer "form" (all things and phenomena, not just the human body, and how they appear on the surface as just being separate things with their own characteristics) to "body" (just this human body). TNH writes ...



Most English renderings are along the lines:



Also. TNH writes ...



A common English translation is instead ...



The latter, more standard Mahayana interpretation seeks to emphasize that, while there is in Buddhism suffering [Dukkha] and its ending, a Path to practice, wisdom to attain which leads to such ending ... at the same time, there is not because suffering and all the rest are originally Empty so no suffering in need of cure ... yet the realization of such fact of Emptiness is the Path to the cure for suffering! This is the nature of Zen Practice and most of Mahayana Buddhism. Instead, TNH seems to be emphasizing that suffering, the Path and Wisdom are just not "separate self-entities." That seems to emphasize to me that they are each dependent on each other, not that they are swept away in Emptiness.

So, I would be a bit cautious here. Surprisingly, in some of his other writings, TNH does something much the same, and might even be seen as a bit of a materialist who views the universe as things and their parts and pieces. For example, in his famous poem on his view of "interbeing," he says ...



It is a beautiful poem, and true as true can be.

However, it also lacks something of the Zen and Mahayana sense of "Emptiness" which is like some grand oceanic wholeness which sweeps in and out all of this beyond just constituent parts and their relationships. It is a subtle point. It is a bit like the difference between saying (TNH) "an ocean its is water and its coral and its fish and their interrelationships" and the view "there is an ocean which is all and all the ocean, and the fish swimming is the ocean swimming, yet there is not even need for the word "ocean." Something like that.

I would be cautious of such a "pieces and parts" interpretation for purposes of Zen practice.

Gassho, J

STLah

Hi Jundo,

Is this an accurate description of Thay's work? The world is full of objects but these objects become parts of other things as well as being broken down into parts. So there is a back and forth between unity and multiplicity depending on our view point. So a car is a car when I'm trying to get my kids ready to leave but when it won't start its no longer a car but a collection of parts and one of those parts is malfunctioning. So its still a car but the unity has become the background while the parts become the foreground. Where as when it was just a car the unity was in the foreground and the multiplicity was in the background. So parts of the car are clearly materially related to other things.

I'm trying to get my head around some of this. I feel like this is from a certain point of view and there are times when we need to let go of point of views and just let what's happening happen. Does that sound right?


Thanks!

Gassho
Hoseki
Sattoday

[Jundo]

Hi Jundo,

Is this an accurate description of Thay's work? The world is full of objects but these objects become parts of other things as well as being broken down into parts. So there is a back and forth between unity and multiplicity depending on our view point. So a car is a car when I'm trying to get my kids ready to leave but when it won't start its no longer a car but a collection of parts and one of those parts is malfunctioning. So its still a car but the unity has become the background while the parts become the foreground. Where as when it was just a car the unity was in the foreground and the multiplicity was in the background. So parts of the car are clearly materially related to other things.

I'm trying to get my head around some of this. I feel like this is from a certain point of view and there are times when we need to let go of point of views and just let what's happening happen. Does that sound right?


Thanks!

Gassho
Hoseki
Sattoday

Hmmm. I am going to present a Talk at Saturday's Zazenkai on Dogen's "Gyobutsu Iigi" where he presents such a wondrous knowing of the deep union and interflowing of all time and space and beings and things ... it is just so much more than cars and car parts (although they, and every other grain of sand or bird or star or rock or war or trash heap of the universe and life itself are included, nothing left out) ...

Gassho, J

STLah

[Hoseki]

Hmmm. I am going to present a Talk at Saturday's Zazenkai on Dogen's "Gyobutsu Iigi" where he presents such a wondrous knowing of the deep union and interflowing of all time and space and beings and things ... it is just so much more than cars and car parts (although they, and every other grain of sand or bird or star or rock or war or trash heap of the universe and life itself are included, nothing left out) ...

Gassho, J

STLah

Neat! I'm looking forward to it.

Gassho,

Hoseki
Sattoday/LAH