Contact Lenses

[Chris H.]

Hello everyone-

This may seem like a silly question, but being a super beginner to the practice of just sitting I have a lot of very utilitatian questions.

Does anyone have problems with their contact lenses when they are sitting? When I'm looking at my living room wall (where I've taken up practicing) my visual pretty quickly gets fuzzy and I feel distracted to have to consistantly blink away the dryness. The unfocusedness wouldn't bother me, but the wall starts wavering if I don't blink and that seems like a distraction too. I've tried without my lenses in, but since I have pretty bad vision and am so unused to not having the lenses in it seems like the same kinds of wavering happen then.

Or does this something I should just get used to? Is the wavering a pretty consistant experience for everyone?

Thanks!

Chris

[Shindo]

Re: Contact Lenses

Hi Chris & welcome

I wear soft gas permeable contact lenses. I wear them in them in morning when I sit & glasses in the evening. Overall, I prefer to sit with my lenses in, as I find my glasses a bit irritating. I don't appear to have the same issues as you, but that may be down to the make of lenses that we wear.

My eyes go out of focus all the time, just like my attention wanders from the breath, or I follow a discursive thought - all I attempt to do is bring my attention back & let go - over & over again.

Kindest regards

Jools

[Godzilla]

Re: Contact Lenses

Hi Chris,
I've been having similar problems to you although for different reasons.
About contact lenses: they do dry the eyes out, even softer ones tend to, and trying to leave the eyes opne without blinking for 30 mins is going to cause damage over a period of time. Your eyes need moisture and blinking is one way of stimulating your tears.

My problem is that I have nystagmus, a condition where my eyes oscillate involuntarily. They literally move from side to side non-stop. Traditionally zazen seems to demand eyes open to some level. But having tried this it seems to not be possible for m without causing a lot fo pain. Also my vision ends up becoming blurry and swirled. Imagine the streaks of light residue you get from staring at a bright light and then moving yor eyes away. This is something I experience constantly. I have taken to sitting with my eyes closed as this blurriness is reduced as the lgith is reduced, and the strain caused by the muscle movement is reduced.

There are purists who will turn around and say I am not practicing zazen and I have xperienced this in sitting with groups. But its a necessity for me. Its something I've been meaning to ask Jundo about actually. I am glad you've brought this up although I'm not sure I've been any help to you.

[Jinho]

Re: Contact Lenses

Hi,

The waivering, undulating, clouds of light, etc are fairly common optical illusions while doing zazen. I do find them very distracting. I am told they are a sign that one's concentration is deepening at that time and that when it gets even deeper, they go away (I was told this at my first "learn how to sit" class about 25 years ago). At least you didn't confuse it with some mystical experience.

cheers,
rowan

[will]

Re: Contact Lenses

We do have the ability to make a big deal out of nothing. What is happening with the hearing when your eyes are blurry? What about the breath? Balance it out in context.

Is there a reason why you don't wear glasses?

Gassho

[Chris H.]

Re: Contact Lenses

Thank you all for your responses!

I do feel that I am making a big deal out of nothing. Perhaps it is my brain perking up and feeling threatened by the lowering of its chatter during zazen.

The simple reason I don't wear glasses is that the lenses are so old that the prescription isn't very useful anymore. But, I bet that wearing them will lower the blurriness factor that I seem to be having. I don't have any difference in my hearing when everything starts going blurry. But if I'm practicing and I close my eyes for any period of time that is when I start having some stronger auditory events. They aren't anything to crazy, but I start hearing some really instense tones. I listen to music a lot during the course of the day in headphones (on the train, at work, while cooking) and I figure that somehow when nothing is going on my brain must be pushing for something to go on.

So what about what Godzilla said about keeping the eyes closed? I know that in zazen you are technically not to do so because it leads to sleepiness or visions or auditory events or whatever. If we're able to watch it rise and let it pass wouldn't it be akin to having thoughts rise and pass? Basically if we can let the sights we're seeing go wouldn't it be ok?

And Ros, a younger me what have certainly thought I was having some sort of mystical hootenany. Luckily, a little older, a little wiser, and following the advice of a more mature me. And so what if they are mystical visions? They're just reality for that moment right, so we should let 'em go. Of course, if I start having some kickin' visions with the Buddha himself having a beer and some peanuts while watching the Cubs win the World Series I might want to grasp on to them a bit more.

Thanks again everyone. And gassho. Say, what does gassho mean?

Cheers-

Chris

[Jundo]

Re: Contact Lenses

So what about what Godzilla said about keeping the eyes closed? I know that in zazen you are technically not to do so because it leads to sleepiness or visions or auditory events or whatever. If we're able to watch it rise and let it pass wouldn't it be akin to having thoughts rise and pass? Basically if we can let the sights we're seeing go wouldn't it be ok?

Hi Chris,

We recently had a very closely related discussion thread on vision issues. Not directly on contacts, but many of the same points apply. Please have a look.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=966&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Gassho, Jundo

[Chris H.]

Re: Contact Lenses

Thank you, Jundo-

This link is really helpful. I think I'll truck on eyes open. Dusty contact lenses are a problem I can overcome.

Chris

[Jinho]

Re: Contact Lenses

Hi again,

Gassho is bow. You put your hands together in what also happens to be the traditional Christian position for praying, but hands are flat together (so that palms are touching as well as fingers touching), with your hands at nose level, then bow from the waist to about a 45 degree angle.It is used for hello, goodbye, thank you, whatever.

I like the phrase "with palms together" as a nice variation on just writing gassho.

Jundo - is the talks on beginners mind or the zazenkai preparation lecture that you go through gassho, shashu, full bows, etc? I think it is in the zazenkai prep series of min-lectures:

http://www.treeleaf.org/library/zazenkai-prep.php

as usual,
rowan

And gassho. Say, what does gassho mean?

Cheers-

Chris

[Alberto]

Re: Contact Lenses

Chris said

This may seem like a silly question, but being a super beginner to the practice of just sitting I have a lot of very utilitatian questions.

Questions and answers on Shikantaza are, IMHO, the best use we can give to this board: it is great to share concrete experiences on specific issues. The second most important thing we do is give each other a sense of encouragement and support. Don't be misled by the heavy, syrupy philosophical discussions: that's just a questionable habit many of us have.

Gassho is bowing. You bow to yourself (or to whomever you're talking -or not talking- to, which in our eyes is exactly the same as yourself), but if you don't feel comfortable with the japanese stuff you can just say "bye, dudes" or some equivalent (my favorite is Filur's "may the force be with you").

Good to have you; we're all super beginners like you and many of us aspire to maintain that awareness all the way.

Alberto

[Mushin]

Re: Contact Lenses

I prefer to wear my glasses when sitting precicely for the drying out feeling that anyone who has worn contacts can attest to. Which produces the "cloud" vision...nothing to do with meditation per se, just dryness.

Actually, sometimes I prefer to take off my glasses because my vision is so bad everything...even my hands in my lap...are blurry, which helps me not get distracted.

[Kanno]

Re: Contact Lenses

I just started wearing contact lenses about two months ago, after years of using glasses.

During zazen I used to remove my glasses, simply because the pressure of them on my face would become noticeable as my perception widened. Also, I noticed that I perceived them as a mental barrier between "me" and "the world".

Now, I remove my lens (I only wear a contact in one eye since my vision isn't that bad) if I'm going to be sitting for more than about 10-15 minutes. Usually that's only at home, so I have my kit available. When sitting for 15 minutes or less, I've found that a drop of refresher (the stuff sold for re moistening your lens in the eye) before beginning will work just fine for me. Have you tried that?

Good luck with your lenses!

Gassho, Kanno.

[Chris H.]

Re: Contact Lenses

Thank you all for your helpful comments. And now that I know what I'm saying, gassho!

I keep experimenting with different ways at each sitting. Lenses in/out, glasses, no glasses, etc. I guess that is why it is also called "practice" eh?

Chris