Not All Swastikas Are the Same

[Ryushi]

The symbol is nothing and has no inherent meaning. It is our own experiences with the symbol that effects what it means to us. It is a shame it had been tainted for so many people.

Again, this is a Buddhist-oriented view. It may be a shame, but it has happened. Allow me to revise this:

It is their own experiences with the symbol that effects what it means to them.


I think we should be more concerned about the context others are coming from than be insisting they see our perspective...

[Anka]

Thanks for the adjustment Todd, the meaning of what I was reaching for might be clearer with it.

Gassho
James F
Sat

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[Junkyo]

After reading the posts from others on this topic, and giving it a little more thought; I think that the best way to approach this might be from a point of compassion.

The swastika symbol provokes many deeply felt emotions among many, many people. It may bring up feelings of fear or dread, anger and hate, and in some people even pride and patriotism (nationalism).

It is evident that the symbols use causes suffering for a great number of people.

As Buddhists one of our primary objectives is the cessation of suffering, and perhaps it is best if we practice non-attachment and let the swastika go as a Buddhist symbol.

I am not sure that it would be worth the potential suffering caused by trying to reclaim it as a symbol of peace.

Gassho,

Rob

SAT

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[Hoseki]

Hey folks,

I’m not sure if it’s my stubbornness or what but I don’t feel like not using the symbol is the way to go.

I feel like this is pretty western centric thinking. Not that we shouldn’t be careful to upset people but these symbols are a part others peoples histories and I feel weird about prioritizing a western understanding of a symbol.

I feel like this type of thing can be a discussion that might lead to change as well as reduce the power of that symbol. For a discussion to take place both parties must come to the table and it seems to me like this priest is doing that. At least from what I can see here.

That said, I’m not going to get it tattooed on my chest.


Gassho
Hoseki

Sat today


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[Ryushi]

Clearly, this is a difficult question and no single answer will satisfy all parties. I'm dealing with something similar, if much lower stakes in my work today. And then this koan from our recent rohatsu retreat came to mind...

Nansen saw the monks of the eastern and western halls fighting over a baby cat....

[Jishin]

After reading the posts from others on this topic, and giving it a little more thought; I think that the best way to approach this might be from a point of compassion.

The swastika symbol provokes many deeply felt emotions among many, many people. It may bring up feelings of fear or dread, anger and hate, and in some people even pride and patriotism (nationalism).

It is evident that the symbols use causes suffering for a great number of people.

As Buddhists one of our primary objectives is the cessation of suffering, and perhaps it is best if we practice non-attachment and let the swastika go as a Buddhist symbol.

I am not sure that it would be worth the potential suffering caused by trying to reclaim it as a symbol of peace.

Gassho,

Rob

SAT

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I like this.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Nanrin]

Hey folks, I’m not sure if it’s my stubbornness or what but I don’t feel like not using the symbol is the way to go. I feel like this is pretty western centric thinking. Not that we shouldn’t be careful to upset people but these symbols are a part others peoples histories and I feel weird about prioritizing a western understanding of a symbol.

I feel like this type of thing can be a discussion that might lead to change as well as reduce the power of that symbol. For a discussion to take place both parties must come to the table and it seems to me like this priest is doing that. At least from what I can see here. That said, I’m not going to get it tattooed on my chest.

Gassho

Hoseki

Sat today Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sawasdee kha from Thailand

Every time I say hello or goodbye, I say swastika. I'm wishing you goodness, beauty, prosperity, fortune, and safety.

This issue is a problem due to Western centered thinking - the West needs to be educated about swastikas, not the East. Most people in the world (not the West) have little to no emotional response to Nazi imagery. More people associate swastika type symbols to Buddhism and Hinduism than to Nazis.

Someone steals my car, drives it while high, and kills children crossing the road. Should I have my driver's licence taken away?

Hindus, Buddhists, and others should be accepted for using it in the usual settings. It's grossly unfair to expect people to abandon their ancient symbols because someone else borrowed it for a while and did bad things.

That said, don't be a jerk. I'm not going to wear a shirt with a swastika to Yad Vashem, synagogue, or anywhere in Germany. I'm just fine with the swastika motifs on the local Buddhist temple walls. If I was designing a temple in the West, I wouldn't add in extra swastikas to reclaim the symbol, nor would I order my Buddha statue to not have it.

Just my two cents.

Sawasdee to you all.

Maitri

St

[Jundo]

I will say that a symbol is just a symbol, and a symbol is not important. If it bothers someone who does not understand, and causes them bad feelings, we have plenty of other good symbols in Buddhism to use. The swastika is disappearing even here in Japan for that reason. They won't disappear completely because they are already part of so many ancient artworks, so always some explaining will be required. I have a few around my office here, which I have had to explain to visiting friends.

I do want to say that the swastika facing in BOTH directions has, in my understanding, has been used with various meanings in Buddhism since the past. So, I think it is wrong to say that the NAZI version spins in the opposite direction (right) to the Buddhist version (Left).

http://www.quangminh.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1126:sauvastika-and-swastika

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Jishin]

Not All Swastikas Are the Same

Hi,

Symbol is a symbol in one sense. But consider these scenarios:

Jundo has no symbols in his office.

He has a Buddha.

He has a cross.

He has a Star of David.

He has a symbol that is or appears to be a swastika.

Combinations of the above are possible.

An atheist/agnostic, Buddhist, Jew, Christian or nazi walk in his office individually or as a group.

I would argue that any scenario that that does not include the swastika would be the least painful, the nazi included due remorse, guilt and shame. This being so, it should be abandoned wherever possible.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Hoseki]

Hi,

Symbol is a symbol in one sense. But consider these scenarios:

Jundo has no symbols in his office.

He has a Buddha.

He has a cross.

He has a Star of David.

He has a symbol that is or appears to be a swastika.

Combinations of the above are possible.

An atheist/agnostic, Buddhist, Jew, Christian or nazi walk in his office individually or as a group.

I would argue that any scenario that that does not include the swastika would be the least painful, the nazi included due remorse, guilt and shame. This being so, it should be abandoned wherever possible.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

Hi Jishin,

I'm not personally invested in the swastika so I don't really have a dog in this race so I'm not sure why I'm so invested in this conversation. But yet here I am Lets look at the people in the room. They primarily represent Western dominated cultural institutions (except Buddhism which could be a westerner) and I doubt a practiing Neo-Nazi would feel guilt and shame at the site of the swastika. Would Jundo have to explain the symbol to someone whose father was a temple priest in Japan? I don't think so (though perhaps I'm wrong.) What if we added someone from Nepal who doesn't speak English or Japanese very well? Wouldn't the swastika be a source of familiarity and comfort? For some it's evokes pain but for others it may evoke peace. Are we to tell those people they can't have their symbol?

As Bodhisattva's in Training^TM we really need to be cognizant about upsetting others with out good cause. So I understand why one wouldn't want to use that symbol on a personal level. But if someone else found it a source of comfort I wouldn't try to deny them that.

I think we need to rob the symbol of its power (in the negative sense) and part of that is exploring its history. I'm mean I read about people making hay about Buddhism during world war II or the terrible actions in Burma in the name of Buddhism. So should we abandon our practice or change the name? Or can we just acknowledge that those people are assholes (and by assholes I mean heavily influenced by anger, greed and ignorance.)

But as I said I don't have a dog in this race and if I had family members who were killed in the Holocaust I might feel differently.

Gassho
Hoseki
Sattoday/LAH

[Jishin]

Hi Jishin,

I'm not personally invested in the swastika so I don't really have a dog in this race so I'm not sure why I'm so invested in this conversation. But yet here I am Lets look at the people in the room. They primarily represent Western dominated cultural institutions (except Buddhism which could be a westerner) and I doubt a practiing Neo-Nazi would feel guilt and shame at the site of the swastika. Would Jundo have to explain the symbol to someone whose father was a temple priest in Japan? I don't think so (though perhaps I'm wrong.) What if we added someone from Nepal who doesn't speak English or Japanese very well? Wouldn't the swastika be a source of familiarity and comfort? For some it's evokes pain but for others it may evoke peace. Are we to tell those people they can't have their symbol?

As Bodhisattva's in Training^TM we really need to be cognizant about upsetting others with out good cause. So I understand why one wouldn't want to use that symbol on a personal level. But if someone else found it a source of comfort I wouldn't try to deny them that.

I think we need to rob the symbol of its power (in the negative sense) and part of that is exploring its history. I'm mean I read about people making hay about Buddhism during world war II or the terrible actions in Burma in the name of Buddhism. So should we abandon our practice or change the name? Or can we just acknowledge that those people are assholes (and by assholes I mean heavily influenced by anger, greed and ignorance.)

But as I said I don't have a dog in this race and if I had family members who were killed in the Holocaust I might feel differently.

Gassho
Hoseki
Sattoday/LAH

Hi,

1/3 of Western Buddhists are Jubus. Swastikas or symbols that are similar distract Jews and Jubus in some form or fashion. The symbols also distract other groups of people. It is best not to promote this symbol in any form or fashion as energy is limited. Invest energy in areas that are more likely to cause good. Not all have the eye to see that a symbol is a symbol.

Gassho, Jishin, ST

[Jundo]

Anyway ...

Sit at the peaceful center of the Swastika symbol, beyond left spin or right spin and beyond all symbols, crosses and burning crosses, beyond all questions of keeping or abandoning to debate. (A Koan)

Then, personally, I think we can do without this particular symbol. We have enough other symbols to use in its place. As with most debates, it is open to other views.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Michael Joseph]

Anyway ...

Sit at the peaceful center of the Swastika symbol, beyond left spin or right spin and beyond all symbols, crosses and burning crosses, beyond all questions of keeping or abandoning to debate. (A Koan)

Then, personally, I think we can do without this particular symbol. We have enough other symbols to use in its place. As with most debates, it is open to other views.

Gassho, J

STLah

Thank you. You cooled my "urge to word" on this topic.

Gassho,

Michael

STLAH

[Amelia]

It comes down to knowledge and use. Is anyone planning to use the peaceful symbol of the swastika and worried about the implications? Or are we just discussing for the sake of discussing the dos and don'ts? Sometimes I notice a lot of philosophizing about things that never really come up.

Sat today, lah

[Souchi]

This doesn't really add to the discussion but the timing of the incident is just right: Maikammer: Hakenkreuz in Schnee gemalt
This is an article from a German newspaper saying that some unknown person drew a Hakenkreuz into the snow, that this is considered a criminal act (in Germany), and that the police is now involved in the investigation. No screwing around with swastikas in Germany!

The Nazi Hakenkreuz symbol is also sometimes used in provocative pieces of arts here in Germany, together with other well known Nazi symbols/gestures. Law courts usually have to decide if the usage is allowed by law or not in these cases.

So much for the status in Germany

Returning to the discussion: As a rule of thumb, I would also not publicly use/display swastikas in countries/regions when it is well known that they have a strong negative connotation in these countries/regions at the moment. Neither would I use/display them somewhere where they stand for admiration of cruel Nazi deeds. If they have been in use like in Japan on maps, then why not.

Gassho
Souchi

SatToday