The Zen Master Cuts, and the Patient Lives! by Jundo

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 39982

    The Zen Master Cuts, and the Patient Lives! by Jundo

    Someone asked on facebook this question:

    Is there a qualitative difference between concentrating on the hara [in Zazen, the place a few inches below the navel said to be the center of gravity and "ki" in traditional Chinese belief] and concentrating as a surgeon doing a procedure [cutting the belly].

    As someone who had big innards surgery just one year ago on my belly, I wrote this ...

    I would say that we do not "concentrate on the Hara" in Shikantaza (not to say that some [probably Rinzai Zen influenced] teachers somewhere don't tell people to do so). One lightly, without clutchng, may place the centerpoint of attention on the posture, on "open awareness" of everything and nothing in particular, on (as Dogen's teacher Rujing once advised) the palm if the hand in the Zazen Mudra, on breath entering and exiting at the nose or the breath feeling as if it reaches and arises from the hara, This is just a center point as the whole world spins round and round.

    Now, I imagine that a surgeon must have a constant plan about where and how to cut, make endless judgments about what is tumor to remove and what is healthy organ, how much blood is draining away and needs to be added. He must worry how much time has passed since he began the operation. Somewhere in all that, hopefully he finds his "zone" and just cuts away. In Shikantaza, we do not plan, judge (tumor is just tumor, organ just organ, and each the same and each just the other, shining in its way) and have nothing to add or cut away. We are in the Zoneless Zone from the startless start to the endless end, each moment of this Shikantaza "non-operation" beyond and containing all time. Something like that. The patient can't die on the table because we do not quite believe in birth and death.

    Thus, the patient is cured.
    Gassho, J

    SatTodayLah

    PS - I recently gave a rather similar response to someone who asked how sitting this Zazen is different from sitting down to watch TV or at work. Also, is Shikantaza not just sitting around, twiddling one's thumbs, a waste of precious time?

    I got up from in front of the TV long enough to write ...

    It is a question which makes it easy to explain the preciousness of Shikantaza in comparison to other kinds of Zazen and meditation. Sitting at a desk at work, there are projects to do, In watching television, we wish to be entertained or watch the news with judgments about the events of the world. Unfortunately, people also try to turn their meditation into one more avenue for getting projects done and goals attained, or into just spiritual entertainment and judgments. In Shikantaza Zazen, there is no work undone, no projects outstanding, no gap to fill. There is instead a certain Good that holds all the good and bad, happiness and sadness, life and death of the world, no doer nor done, no watcher and no watched. One then comes to see this world, in all its complexity, beauty and ugliness, birth and death, simultaneously knowing the illumination which shines through and as all that. One realizes that there was never a second of time that could be wasted from the start of time until the very end.

    Then getting up from the cushion and back to work and all the news of the world, the things that make us smile and the things that make us cry, we realize this too as just Zazen in motion. The light shines through all the things to do and craziness.

    Thus Zazen is the sitting which is precisely the same, yet totally different, from any other sitting in the world.
    Last edited by Jundo; 11-16-2018, 04:29 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
  • Horin
    Member
    • Dec 2017
    • 389

    #2
    Very precious teaching, thank you roshi
    Gassho,
    Ben


    Stlah

    Comment

    • Jishin
      Member
      • Oct 2012
      • 4821

      #3
      The Zen Master Cuts, and the Patient Lives! by Jundo

      Hi Jundo,

      A few surgeons that I know told me there is nothing more they love than surgery. There is a plan prior to surgery but once in the OR things just happen. No disturbances. No phone calls. No pagers. Just the knife, the patient and the team. Then no knife, no patient and no team. Then the bell rings. They would live in the OR if they could but they must get up from then cushion and wear other hats after “surgeontaza”. [emoji4]

      Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_
      Last edited by Jishin; 11-16-2018, 12:08 PM.

      Comment

      • Jundo
        Treeleaf Founder and Priest
        • Apr 2006
        • 39982

        #4
        Originally posted by Jishin
        Hi Jundo,

        A few surgeons that I know told me there is nothing more they love than surgery. There is a plan prior to surgery but once in the OR things just happen. No disturbances. No phone calls. No pagers. Just the knife, the patient and the team. Then no knife, no patient and no team. Then the bell rings. They would live in the OR if they could but they must get up from then cushion and wear other hats after “surgeontaza”. [emoji4]

        Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_
        Hmmm. That does sound like Zazen.

        Gassho, J

        STLah
        ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

        Comment

        • Jishin
          Member
          • Oct 2012
          • 4821

          #5
          I guess you are right. Not Shikantaza.

          Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

          Comment

          • Jundo
            Treeleaf Founder and Priest
            • Apr 2006
            • 39982

            #6
            Originally posted by Jishin
            I guess you are right. Not Shikantaza.

            Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_
            No, I might be wrong and just speaking as someone who was asleep the whole time during my operation. The closest I come to playing doctor is owning a toy stethoscope.

            In fact, from your description, it might have much in common, as can knitting, running, dancing and countless arts and pursuits where one pours oneself. I stand corrected.

            Gassho, J

            STLAh
            ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

            Comment

            • Jishin
              Member
              • Oct 2012
              • 4821

              #7
              I guess you are right. Then Shikantaza.



              Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

              Comment

              • Jundo
                Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                • Apr 2006
                • 39982

                #8
                Originally posted by Jishin
                I guess you are right. Then Shikantaza.



                Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_
                No, it is not Shikantaza ... unless one operates with the attitude that it is the whole of time and space operating, and the table is the only place in the universe with nothing to attain.

                Thus, my diagnosis is that it is kind of like Shikantaza ... but it is not Shikantaza.

                Like a real doctor, I keep changing my diagnosis every 5 minutes.

                Gassho, J

                SatTodayLAH
                ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                Comment

                • Jishin
                  Member
                  • Oct 2012
                  • 4821

                  #9
                  Well, not Shikantaza and not not Shikantaza then.



                  Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

                  Comment

                  • Byokan
                    Treeleaf Unsui
                    • Apr 2014
                    • 4288

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Jundo
                    Like a real doctor, I keep changing my diagnosis every 5 minutes.

                    Gassho, J

                    SatTodayLAH
                    But the prescription remains the same!

                    Gassho
                    Byokan
                    展道 渺寛 Tendō Byōkan
                    Please take my words with a big grain of salt. I know nothing. Wisdom is only found in our whole-hearted practice together.

                    Comment

                    • Jakuden
                      Member
                      • Jun 2015
                      • 6142

                      #11



                      Gassho,
                      Jakuden
                      SatToday/LAH

                      Comment

                      • Jundo
                        Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                        • Apr 2006
                        • 39982

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Jakuden



                        Gassho,
                        Jakuden
                        SatToday/LAH
                        Jakuden, you do surgery. What say you?

                        Looks like that emoji could use an MRI.

                        Gassho, J

                        STLah
                        ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                        Comment

                        • Shokai
                          Treeleaf Priest
                          • Mar 2009
                          • 6392

                          #13
                          Embalming is the same, once you connect your embalming machine with the subject you become one with the circulatory system and automatically do everything required to achieve optimum distribution of the embalming solution throughout the system. I always found it fascinating and inspiring to be able to work with a body like that.

                          gassho, Shokai

                          stlah
                          合掌,生開
                          gassho, Shokai

                          仁道 生開 / Jindo Shokai

                          "Open to life in a benevolent way"

                          https://sarushinzendo.wordpress.com/

                          Comment

                          • Jakuden
                            Member
                            • Jun 2015
                            • 6142

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Jundo
                            Jakuden, you do surgery. What say you?

                            Looks like that emoji could use an MRI.

                            Gassho, J

                            STLah
                            Today my associate took a toy out of a cat’s stomach, but we weren’t sure what was in there beforehand! Dental surgery is often a surprise too, since you don’t find out which teeth need to come out until the patient is asleep, or what else might be going on inside their mouth. So I would say, no resemblance to Shikantaza, more like Roulette [emoji15]
                            Gassho
                            Jakuden
                            SatToday/LAH


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                            Comment

                            • Jishin
                              Member
                              • Oct 2012
                              • 4821

                              #15
                              Ahhh, roulettekantaza! Same but different.

                              Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

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