Sesshin/Practice Period in Japan or China

[ChrisMa]

Hi, hope everyone is enjoying their weekend.

I'm looking for some places to do either a Sesshin or a monastic practice period of a few weeks. This year I'm unable to travel due to work but I will possibly have some gaps in January and February next year. My employment contract finishes at the end of February, and I'm considering taking a little bit of time out to practice zazen more intensively.

I'm based in Beijing, so anywhere in East Asia is feasible. There may be a monastery in Tianjin I can visit but I'm yet to establish whether non-monastic, foreign visitors can stay to practice. In theory it should be possible but in practice there are still some challenges when it comes to religious practice here.

Ideally I would like to practice within the Soto Zen tradition in Japan as Shikantaza is my daily practice and that is what I want to keep on doing, but of course practicing within related traditions such as Chinese Ch'an is fine also.

I was able to do some retreats and short monastery stays back in the UK (outside of Zen, but Zen retreats were also quite widely available) but I have not yet had the opportunity to do any such practice in over two years since moving to Asia.

I would appreciate any advice and suggestions about where I could go to practice. A few years ago I seriously considered going to Antaiji for three years but I wasn't ready, and now I have familial responsibilities that prevent such long trips. My aim now is to arrange a working schedule that allows for two or three Sesshins per year and a good balance of ordinary householder life and shorter periods of more intense practice.

I am not able to speak Japanese, which will limit my options. I am willing to learn, but this may take a while as I'm still getting to grips with Chinese. I'm certainly willing to put in some extra time to learn, but temples with an English-speaker in residence would definitely be helpful in the short-term.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Gassho,

Sat Today,

Chris

[Jundo]

Hi Chris,

It sounds like a lovely idea.

I am not sure about the situation in China at all, so I cannot help.

Antaiji is available if you come at the right season, will stay long enough, and are willing to bust your butt both working (hard physical farm labor) and sitting (they sit for up to 15 hours a day at Sesshin times).

http://antaiji.org/en/

Jyomanji is not really a monastery, but it is open to stays. A friend of this Sangha, Kakunen, has connections there and I can put you in touch.

http://jomanji.web.fc2.com/index_e.htmlt

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14842-Greetings-from-Kakunen-%28Mr-K-%29-now-Training-at-Jyomanji

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?16038-Soto-Zen-monasteries-in-Japan

(PS- I hear from Kakunen from time to time ... he is doing fine, continuing on with his training)

I have heard about this place, but do not have experience there ...

http://daimanji.or.jp/eg/main-e2.htm

https://global.sotozen-net.or.jp/eng/temples/foreigner/1-8.html

This place I recently discovered, it looks very good, connection to Kodo Sawaki, open to foreigners, seems like they recently opened their doors ... and I have little more information. I can help you get information on any of these places, by the way.

http://chokaisan-interzendo.monsite-orange.fr/page3/index.html

For a place open to foreigners, however, they do seem to need help with their English. This made me spit my coffee a bit ...

http://chokaisan-interzendo.monsite-orange.fr/page2/index.html

You can look through the small, and always changing, list of Soto Zen temples open for foreigners, and see what you spot that I might have missed. Most are just sometime Zazenkai, but some are open to longer stay. Most are more local temples, not monastic. There maybe something new that I missed.

https://global.sotozen-net.or.jp/eng/temples/foreigner/index.html

That is the Soto side that I am aware of. I am not sure about what may be available at some Rinzai places.

Let me know if I can help.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[ChrisMa]

Thank you so much.

I typed a long reply on my phone and lost it! I'll type again tomorrow, very tired now and it's late.

In a nutshell, work schedule might be a bit more complicated upon reflection but there is still a good possibility of travel for Sesshin between January and March. If I'm unable to take sufficient time out between jobs, I will definitely be able to do a longer practice period in summer.

I emailed Kakunen recently because I would think about how he's doing from time to time. Very glad to hear he's doing well and still practicing. I admire his devotion and diligence and wish him the best.

Thank you again, and thank you to everyone at Treeleaf for being such a wonderful source of inspiration. I don't post often but I read through posts quite a lot and I've really benefitted. I have huge respect for everyone here who keeps sitting in the midst of everyday life. Having this community helps me tremendously and I'm sure there are many other silent Treeleafers who have benefitted also. I will make the time to get more involved.

For now my daily Zazen sits and daily responsibilities will continue. Nowhere to go, nothing to gain. Zazen for the sake of Zazen. Whether at home or in the monastery, always going back to this moment.

Thanks to Jundo and everyone here.

Gassho,

Sat Today,

Chris

[ChrisMa]

Just reread my post from yesterday. I don't think I need to add anything actually. It says the main points I wanted to get across.

It looks like there are many good and suitable places to practice.

Thank you again Jundo.

Gassho,

Sat Today,

Chris

[Meitou]

Hi Chris,
Although unable to contribute anything, I've followed this conversation with interest. Best wishes for your search and please do let us know how this works out.
Gassho
Meitou
Satwithyoualltoday lah

[ChrisMa]

Hi Chris,
Although unable to contribute anything, I've followed this conversation with interest. Best wishes for your search and please do let us know how this works out.
Gassho
Meitou
Satwithyoualltoday lah

Thank you Meitou.

I still haven't resolved my work situation so I can't be sure I'll do a Sesshin in January.

Either way, this information is valuable and I'll be sure to make use of it as soon as I can.

I hope it can also be of benefit to others here who are considering a practice period in Japan.

Of course, the world is our Zendo and everywhere is equally conducive and appropriate for practice.

Gassho,

Best Wishes,

Sat Today,

Chris

[Jundo]

Of course, the world is our Zendo and everywhere is equally conducive and appropriate for practice.

Yes, that is why Dogen wrote the following (in Fukanzazengi):

Although they say that there are ten thousand distinctions and a thousand variations, they just wholeheartedly engage the way in zazen. Why leave behind the seat in your own home to wander in vain through the dusty realms of other lands? If you make one misstep, you stumble past what is directly in front of you.

Of course, he was talking about going from Japan to China, not the other direction like you.

Nonetheless, Dogen did go from Japan to China, and there are times when making the trip to travel to Sesshin or experience a traditional setting is very very good. I strongly encourage folks ... if you can find the time ... to go for retreats for a weekend, but better a few days or full Sesshin (even a full week or two if you can) at places, and "traditional" (i.e., very Japanese style) retreats and Sesshin are good experiences. There are several good places to experience that in North America and Europe, and it is good to be in a place where one can rub shoulders with others, living together for a few days. If someone can't go to a bricks and mortar location for such a retreat, we have our Annual Treeleaf "All Online" two-day Retreat too (each December, via live netcast, details soon) at Treeleaf Sangha ... traditional (yet "fully online" ... and available to sit any timeless, all year round) ... Here is last year ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?15821-TREELEAF-SANGHA-online-2-DAY-ANGO-JUKAI-ROHATSU-RETREAT-2017-%28MAIN-PAGE%29&highlight=waza+rohatsu

... but this is a case where it is actually good to go to a retreat center and practice with folks for a time (if at all possible ... which it ain't for everybody). I usually say this as the reason:

Now, someone might ask too, "if each moment is all time and space, and Zazen is 'good for nothing', what is the purpose of an intensive Sesshin?" Well, I often say that, sometimes, we need to practice a bit long and hard, morning to night ... sitting and wrestling with 'me, my self and I' ... all to achieve nothing to attain, and taste the good of 'good for nothing'! Going to Retreats, Sesshin and such is a powerful facet of this Practice and not to be missed. So I strongly encourage folks to go for retreats for intensive sittings, Sesshin, of many days ... even a week or two or longer ... waking early in the morning, sitting late into the evening. All Zen Teachers that I know do.

No need to go all the way to China!

Gassho, J

STLah

[ChrisMa]

That's a great quote, thanks! Whatever we're looking/training/practicing for is always right here already.

I agree. Although I haven't done a Sesshin in the Zen tradition, I know that going to a monastic setting (or any kind of quiet and dedicated retreat centre away from the noise of the city) for a short time, maintaining silence, no internet, and sitting long hours can be a powerful experience. The presence of other practicioners sitting diligently can keep us from running out of the door during the tough periods. Equally, the silence and routine can help us reach a depth and quietness that is sometimes elusive when sitting in the midst of daily life. (Even going to a local Zendo once or twice a week can have a similar effect on our practice. One of the great things about Treeleaf is that the benefit of Sangha is offered irrespective of place.)

Of course, we don't go into it hoping for tranquility or pleasantness or anything else. Every sit is a good sit, wherever we are.

I also wanted to emphasise that, for those who can't attend more formal retreat (myself included at this moment), there's no need to think that sitting at home is less proper or true Zazen than sitting at a temple or brick and mortar Sangha. Wherever we sit, we're just here.

I look forward to hearing more about the December two day retreat. If I cannot sit for the whole day at that time, I'll be sure to find an opportunity to join you all a couple of weeks before or after.

This brings me to another question. Recently I've found myself sitting for longer on days when I have time. This isn't a forced effortful thing, but just a natural increase in wanting to sit Zazen. Sneaking in an extra hour or two outside of normal morning/evening sits, perhaps instead of reading or watching a youtube documentary or whatever. I'm wary of overdoing it as this has sometimes created imbalances/goal-fixation/obsession with attaining peak experiences before. This can sometimes do more harm than good and leads us back into the cycle of grasping. And now I'm much more inclined towards the more balanced and moderate approach here.

What's the stance here on sitting a bit more, outside of Sesshin, every once in a while? I'm not trying to attain anything (of course, such thoughts arise, but I watch them come and go) but the appeal of sitting quietly and looking closely at the reality if this moment is greater than many other things. Zazen can sometimes be very interesting.

I'm relatively new to the Soto tradition, so I'm wary of falling into traps in my practice. At the same time I want to stay open and follow it wherever it goes. What experiences do my more experienced fellow practitioners have of this? Can this be another slippery slope or a kind of excess? Best to do less at home and more at Sesshin? Or should we just follow our Zazen gut?

Gassho,

Sat Today,

Chris

[Jundo]

This brings me to another question. Recently I've found myself sitting for longer on days when I have time. This isn't a forced effortful thing, but just a natural increase in wanting to sit Zazen. Sneaking in an extra hour or two outside of normal morning/evening sits, perhaps instead of reading or watching a youtube documentary or whatever. I'm wary of overdoing it as this has sometimes created imbalances/goal-fixation/obsession with attaining peak experiences before. This can sometimes do more harm than good and leads us back into the cycle of grasping. And now I'm much more inclined towards the more balanced and moderate approach here.

What's the stance here on sitting a bit more, outside of Sesshin, every once in a while? I'm not trying to attain anything (of course, such thoughts arise, but I watch them come and go) but the appeal of sitting quietly and looking closely at the reality if this moment is greater than many other things. Zazen can sometimes be very interesting.

I'm relatively new to the Soto tradition, so I'm wary of falling into traps in my practice. At the same time I want to stay open and follow it wherever it goes. What experiences do my more experienced fellow practitioners have of this? Can this be another slippery slope or a kind of excess? Best to do less at home and more at Sesshin? Or should we just follow our Zazen gut?

Hi Chris,

In my opinion, it is like swimming or sailing a boat. How much is too much? That depends on the person and the day. Sometimes go long, sometimes shorter. It also depends on where it fits in your life. If it does not feel like a sick obsession, or something that is interfering with balance in life, then some days swim or sail a bit longer if one wishes. No problem. You know where it fits in your own life. Even monks in the monastery do not spend all day on the cushion, at least not most days.

Some teachers recommend a certain minimum time, ranging from a certain minimum number of minutes, to multiple sittings or hours each day. I am not so. I actually recommend that the most important time to sit is to sit for a time, but beyond care or measure of time. Here are a couple of talks on that ...

SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: Why Zen Folks FAIL!! (5) - Watching The Clock Rackin Up Points

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?13634-SIT-A-LONG-with-Jundo-Why-Zen-Folks-FAIL%21%21-%285%29-Watching-The-Clock-Rackin-Up-Points

Zazen for Beginners (14) - How Long To Sit? INTRODUCING the 15－Minute Sit (LINK)

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14882-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%2814%29&p=189091#post189091

Have a good swim and sail. Remember that, no matter how far out in the waters one goes, it is always right here.

Gassho, J

STLah

[ChrisMa]

Have a good swim and sail. Remember that, no matter how far out in the waters one goes, it is always right here.

Thank you for the insights. The two older posts you linked to were very appropriate. I'll go back to them a few times I'm sure.

The desire to sit more will come and go every once in a while. I'll go with intuition as long as excesses and fixation are avoided.

And still put in that minimum when the desire isn't there. Balance at both ends.

Whether sitting for 15 minutes or 15 hours, it's always about sitting in the timelessness right here. And equally when not sitting. Still right here.

Gassho,

Sat Today,

Chris