Total insecurity

[Horin]

Today i became aware how much i cling to the security of doing zazen "right".
Of course there are days that feeling kinda satisfiying when i do zazen..like i am "in tune" with doing it somehow "right". Often there is a feeling of unsatisfaction..it doesnt feels like its right..and yes, there is no right nor wrong unless i wont just daydreaming or fall asleep. but i often feel the urge to go somewhere.. to sit down and want to reach to a point of some ideal state of mind thats ofc just some illusion.
i keep on remind myself of the moshutoku-attitude before sitting. It really helps me to drop that idea of reach some point. Its dogens point that zazen itself is already the purpose, the expression of buddha dharma and no tool or way for some goal.
each time, before i sit i wont know what will happen, how this time on the zafu will be, because there is nothing to grasp or to keep out of zazen. Its like grabbing in the air. All this experiences i had before on the zafu are gone, just ideas that need to be dropped when i do zazen. Its total insecurity, because each moment, this time, "nikon" is all what is. memories of past zazen times are just memories, there is no preparation, its just letting go and drown into that present moment with all it conditions..
Tomorrow i may long for security again. Who cares


Gassho,
Ben

Stlah

[Byokan]

Hi Ben,

yes, exactly, "Who" does care. Anyway, I care! I like what you've said here.

I think we all naturally want to hold on to something for security. We're so used to doing things to get some payoff or effect, to reach some point as you say. I'm just a priest-in-training so am quite likely mistaken about a lot of things -- but I feel like it's actually the security that is an illusion. Letting go of the illusion of security can seem like, oh no, maybe I will drown there if I really let go. I need the assurance that I'm doing it "right," or the rewarding feeling of a "good" meditation. But when we do open that clinging hand, when we stop striving and grasping and just be, then we realize that reality, existing here and now, holds us. It holds everything, and we were always secure. The things we were clinging to were not what was holding us up at all. Doing Zazen in this way is "Right" in a way that is beyond our ideas of "doing Zazen right or wrong."

Starting over 10,000 times is how to find this total security.

Gassho
Byōkan
sat + lah

[Jakuden]

I thought I had overcome the whole "getting Zazen right" concept and then found myself getting annoyed at thoughts coming in today during a long tired sit. Why did the idea of "right Zazen" suddenly reappear? Maybe because it's Ango? I think Byokan has the answer, we just are naturally wired to do things "correctly" to get some kind of reward. Even after lots of practice it still goes against the grain to let the grasping for security and outcomes go.

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH

[Jundo]

Hi Ben,

Yes, this is exactly the "dis-Ease" that our "Goalless" sitting is the medicine for. Lovely.

Human beings always want to "get it right" "judge it wrong" "need to fill the hole, get some place." Zazen is the radical WHOLE that fills all holes from the start, and sitting right here is the one place one needs to be. Judging it "wrong or right" is doing it wrong. On the other hand, judging it Right just by sitting and dropping all other judgments of "doing it wrong or right" is doing it Right!

(Of course, let thoughts go and don't get tangled as best on can, but even on those cloudy or stormy days when one gets tangled nonetheless ... it is still RIGHT IN THAT MOMENT!)

Shikantaza is a strange bird.

More of my old preaching:

Right Zazen and Wrong Zazen

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7573-SPECIAL-REPOST-Right-Zazen-and-Wrong-Zazen

Why Zen Folks FAIL!! (5) - Watching The Clock Rackin Up Points

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?13634-SIT-A-LONG-with-Jundo-Why-Zen-Folks-FAIL%21%21-%285%29-Watching-The-Clock-Rackin-Up-Points

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Mp]

Today i became aware how much i cling to the security of doing zazen "right".
Of course there are days that feeling kinda satisfiying when i do zazen..like i am "in tune" with doing it somehow "right". Often there is a feeling of unsatisfaction..it doesnt feels like its right..and yes, there is no right nor wrong unless i wont just daydreaming or fall asleep. but i often feel the urge to go somewhere.. to sit down and want to reach to a point of some ideal state of mind thats ofc just some illusion.
i keep on remind myself of the moshutoku-attitude before sitting. It really helps me to drop that idea of reach some point. Its dogens point that zazen itself is already the purpose, the expression of buddha dharma and no tool or way for some goal.
each time, before i sit i wont know what will happen, how this time on the zafu will be, because there is nothing to grasp or to keep out of zazen. Its like grabbing in the air. All this experiences i had before on the zafu are gone, just ideas that need to be dropped when i do zazen. Its total insecurity, because each moment, this time, "nikon" is all what is. memories of past zazen times are just memories, there is no preparation, its just letting go and drown into that present moment with all it conditions..
Tomorrow i may long for security again. Who cares


Gassho,
Ben

Stlah

Hey there Ben,

So my question to you is, how do you know that you are not doing it right? Compared to what?

Sometimes the mind thinks that what it is thinking is correct ... but this is not always the case. When sitting, just sit. If you fins your mind wondering, recognize that and just come back to sitting, start a new in that moment. This also applies to the body as well.

Hope this helps. =)

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

[Jishin]

Hi Ben,

Just be yourself. I think you are doing great. [emoji106]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Horin]

. Letting go of the illusion of security can seem like, oh no, maybe I will drown there if I really let go. I need the assurance that I'm doing it "right," or the rewarding feeling of a "good" meditation. But when we do open that clinging hand, when we stop striving and grasping and just be, then we realize that reality, existing here and now, holds us. It holds everything, and we were always secure. The things we were clinging to were not what was holding us up at all. Doing Zazen in this way is "Right" in a way that is beyond our ideas of "doing Zazen right or wrong."

Starting over 10,000 times is how to find this total security.

Gassho
Byōkan
sat + lah

Yes, it seems to be such deep unaware, how those habitual patterns work, like surviving functions. But zazen seems to offer the opportunity, to detect patterns like this but to go beyond it may takes 100000 times again and again. But thats what zazen is, init? Again and again coming to this very unconditional awareneness..

Jakuden yes thats what i experience too, from time to time there is longing to do zazen right..on other periods of days there is only sitting..no question of doing right or wrong..

Jundo, thank you roshi for these words. I will keep sitting daily as usual. I will read your links later..
Even i do not joined the official angonists i decided myself to sit a bit longer daily and to have some headers i try to accomplish these weeks.

Shingen.. yes the thinking mind is the only instance deciding what is right or wrong. zazen is to go beyond thinking so it doesnt matter at all what thoughts arise. Yet there are still feelings of "right"/"pleasant" and "wrong".. enough food for ego when there are periods without thoughts or the feeling of "this was real peaceful zazen!" this desire may follow the next days of zazen but i also can observe this as some appearance, and drop it this way.

Jishin: thank you very much ()

thanks all for your answers!

Gassho,
St
Ben

[Eishuu]

Today i became aware how much i cling to the security of doing zazen "right".
Of course there are days that feeling kinda satisfiying when i do zazen..like i am "in tune" with doing it somehow "right". Often there is a feeling of unsatisfaction..it doesnt feels like its right..and yes, there is no right nor wrong unless i wont just daydreaming or fall asleep. but i often feel the urge to go somewhere.. to sit down and want to reach to a point of some ideal state of mind thats ofc just some illusion.
i keep on remind myself of the moshutoku-attitude before sitting. It really helps me to drop that idea of reach some point. Its dogens point that zazen itself is already the purpose, the expression of buddha dharma and no tool or way for some goal.
each time, before i sit i wont know what will happen, how this time on the zafu will be, because there is nothing to grasp or to keep out of zazen. Its like grabbing in the air. All this experiences i had before on the zafu are gone, just ideas that need to be dropped when i do zazen. Its total insecurity, because each moment, this time, "nikon" is all what is. memories of past zazen times are just memories, there is no preparation, its just letting go and drown into that present moment with all it conditions..
Tomorrow i may long for security again. Who cares


Gassho,
Ben

Stlah

Gassho
Eishuu
ST/LAH

[Nengei]

Oh my yes, and not just zazen. I am training as an endurance runner, and the connections between zazen and running are strong (and other things in life). This idea of doing it right has the power to knock me right off my zafu... and to keep me from stepping out of my door. It is all about my expectations. It is so challenging to step around expectations. "I must know which shoes to wear." "I must make sure to wear the right gear." "I must learn to use my tracking watch correctly." "I must read this new book and incorporate what it says into my routine." I swear it never stops. But really all I need is to put on my shorts and shoes, and get going. And I must simply sit, even if nothing else feels right. Just sit. It can circumvent those expectations like nothing else. And then I can search for the perfection in every breath. And every step.

I love these words that Jundoshi wrote: Yes, this is exactly the "dis-Ease" that our "Goalless" sitting is the medicine for. Lovely. This has been the great reveal of this Ango for me, so far. So now, sit.

Gassho
Joseph

Sat today. LAH today. Full of compassion today.

[Horin]

Artisan, oh yes i know what you mean ()

Gassho, Ben

Stlah

[Meian]

I've been trying out "micro sessions" of zazen.

Circumstances have been such that 10-20 minutes have not been possible, so I decided to try what an old sangha friend had suggested doing when modern life got the best of us. Setting a timer for 1 minute. Or 2 mminutes. Then again, if possible. But even that 1 or 2 minutes of breathing and existing in the midst of life and activity is something -- just to pause and exist in the moment.

So, I've been working with 1-5 minute micro-sessions, a few times a day. Pausing and breathing, existing.

Just enough time before a relative calls, my kids need help, something in the house needs attention, or the next deadline is due. [emoji4]

Gassho
Kim
St

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

[Jishin]

That's sounds great!

[emoji3]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

I've been trying out "micro sessions" of zazen.

Circumstances have been such that 10-20 minutes have not been possible, so I decided to try what an old sangha friend had suggested doing when modern life got the best of us. Setting a timer for 1 minute. Or 2 mminutes. Then again, if possible. But even that 1 or 2 minutes of breathing and existing in the midst of life and activity is something -- just to pause and exist in the moment.

So, I've been working with 1-5 minute micro-sessions, a few times a day. Pausing and breathing, existing.

Just enough time before a relative calls, my kids need help, something in the house needs attention, or the next deadline is due. [emoji4]

Gassho
Kim
St

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

That sounds lovely, especially if that is what you can manage. Several "micro-sits" do add up and, anyway, sitting is not a matter of time, long or short. It is beyond time, and every second contains all time. It is true.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Rakurei]

I've been trying out "micro sessions" of zazen.

Circumstances have been such that 10-20 minutes have not been possible, so I decided to try what an old sangha friend had suggested doing when modern life got the best of us. Setting a timer for 1 minute. Or 2 mminutes. Then again, if possible. But even that 1 or 2 minutes of breathing and existing in the midst of life and activity is something -- just to pause and exist in the moment.

So, I've been working with 1-5 minute micro-sessions, a few times a day. Pausing and breathing, existing.

Just enough time before a relative calls, my kids need help, something in the house needs attention, or the next deadline is due. [emoji4]

Gassho
Kim
St

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

That is very lovely! You note housework and deadlines - do you work from home? I do. I've been doing the 40 minutes of focus 10 minute break structure - and I've found it super helpful to sit during some of those 10 minute breaks.

Or else I'm just staring at my screen all day, hunched over a keyboard.

Great reminder of sitting is sitting even if it's not Zenny.

ST,

Rakurei