Shikantaza easy? Or am i doing it wrong

[Tairin]

For me it’s not the sitting. It’s the practice of daily sitting that seems a struggle. Unlike today.

Gassho
Ishin
Sat Today/ lah

It helps to have support. My wife sits with me pretty much everyday. She doesn't sit Shikantaza and that doesn't matter to me. Her presence helps me stay consistent. Our 15 year old son just leaves us alone when we are sitting. This way I am not struggling to carve out time It is just part of the day


Tairin
Sat today with my wife and with all of you

[Ishin]

It helps to have support. My wife sits with me pretty much everyday. She doesn't sit Shikantaza and that doesn't matter to me. Her presence helps me stay consistent. Our 15 year old son just leaves us alone when we are sitting. This way I am not struggling to carve out time It is just part of the day


Tairin
Sat today with my wife and with all of you

thank you

Ishin
Sat Today
lah

[Jundo]

For me it’s not the sitting. It’s the practice of daily sitting that seems a struggle. Unlike today.

Gassho
Ishin
Sat Today/ lah

We recommend 15 minutes a day of sitting, but taking it "off the cushion" too ... to the doctor's waiting room, the hot day, the pink slip at work, the flat tires of life. See here ,...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14882-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%2814%29&p=189091#post189091

and

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14883-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%2813%29

However, some may feel at home to sit longer. If that resonates, then sit longer. In fact, sometimes go sit for hours or head to a retreat for days!

If one cannot, then sit for 5 minutes ... or 1 minute ... or 1 second ... knowing that it holds all time and space. Yes, this is a weird practice. It is not about time, so we sit for a time each day to recall that fact! See here ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?13634-SIT-A-LONG-with-Jundo-Why-Zen-Folks-FAIL%21%21-%285%29-Watching-The-Clock-Rackin-Up-Points

That is not an excuse not to sit, but just a reminder that sitting is not a matter of long or short or how long one sits.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Seishin]

Mattias

Sounds like you're doing fine as others have said. Iv'e been sitting daily now for around 22 months and only in the last few weeks have I given up on the fight of analyzing right and wrong zazen, good and bad zazen while I'm on the zafu. I'm finally accepting it is what is but hey its a slower transition off the zafu than on it. Keep doing what you're doing.

[Earl]

OOH OH ME!, ME!

Haha! excellent Thanks for pointing that out Getchi.

[Shinshou]

When I first stated sitting, I couldn't let go of thoughts, perceptions, sensations, judgments. Then, I thought I was able to let go, but the attachments were just finer, subtler, sneakier. Then I was able to let go, but not able to let go of having to let go (as Jishin occasionally points out, being attached to being unattached is being attached)! Now, when I can occasionally let go of thinking that I need to let go, I can't let go of "I'm doing it!" which places me squarely back at the beginning. This is indeed a strange practice...

Shinshou (Daniel)
Sat Today

[Ishin]

We recommend 15 minutes a day of sitting, but taking it "off the cushion" too ... to the doctor's waiting room, the hot day, the pink slip at work, the flat tires of life. See here ,...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14882-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%2814%29&p=189091#post189091

and

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14883-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%2813%29

However, some may feel at home to sit longer. If that resonates, then sit longer. In fact, sometimes go sit for hours or head to a retreat for days!

If one cannot, then sit for 5 minutes ... or 1 minute ... or 1 second ... knowing that it holds all time and space. Yes, this is a weird practice. It is not about time, so we sit for a time each day to recall that fact! See here ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?13634-SIT-A-LONG-with-Jundo-Why-Zen-Folks-FAIL%21%21-%285%29-Watching-The-Clock-Rackin-Up-Points

That is not an excuse not to sit, but just a reminder that sitting is not a matter of long or short or how long one sits.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

Understood

Gassho
Ishin
Sat Today/lah

[Tenrai]

Hi,
I have followed this thread with interest.
For me, I find that the duration of my sit brings, in general, different qualities. What i mean.... and its tricky to find the words to capture this.... is that if i sit for 15-20 minutes plus, i find I can almost feel my mind settling.
During my day I will often pause for "on the hoof" moments of zazen, a breath or two, maybe 5 minutes at work. These "quick sits" I find helpful in many ways, but my daily more "formal" sit has a peace and depth to it.
All have value and i feel a benefit for moments of zazen as well as longer sits. Maybe as i deepen my practice i may be able to capture the depth of the experience in those momentary moments.
Practing alone, its just me, so this forum is the only place for me to share and learn so would value any thoughts from the sangha.
(sorry about lots of "...")
Gassho
Richard
Sat today and LAH

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Horin]

Hi,
I have followed this thread with interest.
For me, I find that the duration of my sit brings, in general, different qualities. What i mean.... and its tricky to find the words to capture this.... is that if i sit for 15-20 minutes plus, i find I can almost feel my mind settling.
During my day I will often pause for "on the hoof" moments of zazen, a breath or two, maybe 5 minutes at work. These "quick sits" I find helpful in many ways, but my daily more "formal" sit has a peace and depth to it.
All have value and i feel a benefit for moments of zazen as well as longer sits. Maybe as i deepen my practice i may be able to capture the depth of the experience in those momentary moments.
Practing alone, its just me, so this forum is the only place for me to share and learn so would value any thoughts from the sangha.
(sorry about lots of "...")
Gassho
Richard
Sat today and LAH

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

I know what you mean but i think benefits may be the wrong word. i can say only for me but its rather that when i do my formal zazen for 25 minutes i have more space for my practice and i am in some setting that i feel more settled because i know i can just sit for this duration and wont be disturbed. In the small periods in the daily life i am in some state to be ready to stop this small zazen to react what maybe disturbs this sitting (kids, collegues and so on). So i am not fully enganged in it than when i do my formal practice. I think that is the only division between formal/informal for me. Its still the same in the sense that there is sitting happening while everything appears and fades but with different engagement but without benefits
gassho
Ben

Stlah

[Jundo]

Hi,
I have followed this thread with interest.
For me, I find that the duration of my sit brings, in general, different qualities. What i mean.... and its tricky to find the words to capture this.... is that if i sit for 15-20 minutes plus, i find I can almost feel my mind settling.
During my day I will often pause for "on the hoof" moments of zazen, a breath or two, maybe 5 minutes at work. These "quick sits" I find helpful in many ways, but my daily more "formal" sit has a peace and depth to it.
All have value and i feel a benefit for moments of zazen as well as longer sits. Maybe as i deepen my practice i may be able to capture the depth of the experience in those momentary moments.
Practing alone, its just me, so this forum is the only place for me to share and learn so would value any thoughts from the sangha.
(sorry about lots of "...")
Gassho
Richard
Sat today and LAH

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

If it feels right, then it is right. It is like breathing or walking in that way too.

Just remember that, ultimately, Zazen is not about good or bad, settled or unsettled, long or short and the like. Yes, that is the Koan of Zazen.

Gassho, J

ST Lah

[Sekiyuu]

"Everything is a skill" is something I say a lot. I do it to defuse deeply-held beliefs about talent that we are taught from a very young age. People seem naturally gifted with abilities in art, athletics, math, whatever, but it's just jumping to conclusions because we don't see the thousands of hours they spent practicing and getting better. We end up forming defeatist attitudes, a common one is that people think their "brain isn't wired to learn languages" when the precise opposite is actually true, so they give up learning anything beyond their native one. If you were told you were smart at a young age and run into a real mental challenge, you actually give up much more easily and make excuses because admitting that it's hard would be admitting that you're actually not smart at all.

Zazen is the one thing that I don't think is a skill you get better at with practice. The whole point is that you can't get better at it, but you still practice anyways. It's one thing to read about "beginner's mind" and embrace it, but it's another thing to discover there's no alternative to "beginner's mind". Every time I sit is different, and getting "good" at zazen is getting "good" at being in that particular moment. It's simply impossible to carry your experience of past zazen into the zazen you're practicing right now. After months of regular sitting, this is the way I understand Zazen being "neither good nor bad".

Even then, there are certainly zazen sessions that were "better" than others. I experienced some kind of stillness for longer, I learned some insight about non-self or emptiness, sometimes big insights and sometimes small. Even then, to consider those "better" seems wrong; the practice was always the same. To value the "better" times over all other times seems like a very dangerous kind of attachment, and trying to pursue the "better" times would sabotage the whole practice.

_/\_
Kenny
Sat Today

[Jundo]

Zazen is the one thing that I don't think is a skill you get better at with practice. The whole point is that you can't get better at it, but you still practice anyways. It's one thing to read about "beginner's mind" and embrace it, but it's another thing to discover there's no alternative to "beginner's mind". Every time I sit is different, and getting "good" at zazen is getting "good" at being in that particular moment. It's simply impossible to carry your experience of past zazen into the zazen you're practicing right now. After months of regular sitting, this is the way I understand Zazen being "neither good nor bad".

Even then, there are certainly zazen sessions that were "better" than others. I experienced some kind of stillness for longer, I learned some insight about non-self or emptiness, sometimes big insights and sometimes small. Even then, to consider those "better" seems wrong; the practice was always the same. To value the "better" times over all other times seems like a very dangerous kind of attachment, and trying to pursue the "better" times would sabotage the whole practice.

Ah, becoming Wise-Crazy like the rest of us I see. Yes, the Karmic Katch-22 of Shikantaza.




PS - For our foreign speakers not familiar with the slang "Catch 22"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22_(logic)

[Mattias]

OOH OH ME!, ME!

In all seriousness, Shikantaza has let me shut-up and my wife (and kids) mention how much calmer I am every day. And it always makes me smile .

Same here , that’s what my wife tells me too. And that’s pretty awesome I think.

[Mattias]

Mattias

Sounds like you're doing fine as others have said. Iv'e been sitting daily now for around 22 months and only in the last few weeks have I given up on the fight of analyzing right and wrong zazen, good and bad zazen while I'm on the zafu. I'm finally accepting it is what is but hey its a slower transition off the zafu than on it. Keep doing what you're doing.

Yeah, it takes its time to stop judging like that, but also or mindset is programmed from our childhood to always achieve something. So it’s difficult to get out of these habits. Especially of the cushion as you say.

[Mattias]

When I first stated sitting, I couldn't let go of thoughts, perceptions, sensations, judgments. Then, I thought I was able to let go, but the attachments were just finer, subtler, sneakier. Then I was able to let go, but not able to let go of having to let go (as Jishin occasionally points out, being attached to being unattached is being attached)! Now, when I can occasionally let go of thinking that I need to let go, I can't let go of "I'm doing it!" which places me squarely back at the beginning. This is indeed a strange practice...

Shinshou (Daniel)
Sat Today

This describes my problem off the cushion, not so much during formal zazen. In daily life I’m too attached to being not attached. That I forget to let go and are caught up in daydreams instead of being aware in the present. But I guess to realise that you have been thinking of dressing up in pyjamas and meeting other grownups in a sweety gym and try to kill each other is also ok. That’s what’s on my mind most of the time, jiu jitsu. But I make up how things should be, it’s not ok to think of jiu jitsu practice when on the beach , I should be focused on the whole beach experience. And i ,you know get a feeling that that’s not how it should be, but that’s exactly what I do in zazen all the time ,wake up from daydreams , worries and all that , just in daily life I tend to believe I do something wrong and it feels frustrating.

Sat today
Gassho